2013 Hall of Fame Ballot Topic

Well, there we are then.  An impasse.
12/3/2013 7:28 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/3/2013 4:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/3/2013 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/30/2012 7:08:00 PM (view original):
Holy fuckity ****.   You've yelled "Defense and speed" for months about Trout and Cabrera.   Now you backtrack.   GTFO.
What was I trying to say here?
You were calling me a hypocrite because I said that Trout was better in 2012 than Cabrera.

It's not a backtrack. It's two completely different situations. Trout was just about as good as Cabrera with the bat in 2012. In fact, he had a better OPS+. Then, when you factor in Trout's huge advantages in the field and on the bases, it's a landslide. Trout was significantly better than Cabrera in 2012.

On the other hand, Williams was no where near the hitter that Martinez was. To imply otherwise is either retarded or purposefully misleading. Williams' ability to play center (though not well) closes the gap a little, but they are still far enough apart that Martinez is an easy yes vote for me for the hall and Williams isn't even a borderline candidate.
Cabrera=FAR BETTER THAN TROUT. Trout a clear 2nd, but second nonetheless you delusional fucktard.
12/3/2013 10:22 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/3/2013 5:36:00 PM (view original):
And I think Martinez was better. His bat was so good that, even without providing any defensive value, there were years where he was one of the top 3 or 4 players in the AL. That was never true of Williams.
All of this based on the assumption that DWAR is not a total crock of ****.

Which isn't a very good assumption...

12/4/2013 5:09 AM
Also, one could certainly argue that somewhere around '98/'99, while he was leading the league in AVG and hitting 25 homers and winning CF GGs, he was amongst the top 3 or 4 offensive players in the AL.
12/4/2013 5:10 AM
Posted by dahsdebater on 12/4/2013 5:10:00 AM (view original):
Also, one could certainly argue that somewhere around '98/'99, while he was leading the league in AVG and hitting 25 homers and winning CF GGs, he was amongst the top 3 or 4 offensive players in the AL.
You're right, in 98 Williams was among the top 3 or 4 players in the AL. Belle was better offensively and I'd rather have Griffey, but Williams was up there.

Overall I'd still rather have Edgar Martinez.
12/4/2013 11:49 AM
FWIW (which isn't much), Bernie is 3rd in the AL in SLB salary in 1998 and first amongst all full-time players in $/PA.  In '99 he's first in salary and 2nd to Nomar in $/PA.  So he must have been doing something right.

In 2000 he drops down to 7th, which is still WAAAAYYYYYY ahead of Edgar Martinez.  In fact, Edgar's highest-salary season (1995) would be Bernie's 2nd-most expensive season, but his 2nd highest-salary season falls below every year of Bernie from 1994 through 2002.  Obviously SLB salary is not a perfect analog for real-world value, but it is a compilation of what some fairly competent people thought they were worth in a purely statistical simulation of baseball.
12/4/2013 4:00 PM
And oh by the way, those WIS numbers are not adjusted for ballpark.  The Kingdome was a better hitters' park than old Yankee Stadium.
12/4/2013 4:03 PM
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2013 Hall of Fame Ballot Topic

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