2013 Hall of Fame Ballot Topic

tecwrg
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I really don't understand your point here.  You keep insisting that BW and EM were not the same offensively.  I don't think anybody is disputing that.

You seem to have a huge stick up your *** about one post by one person that you seemed to have misinterpreted.  Why can't you just say "I misinterpreted what you meant" and move on past it?
12/3/2013 12:16 PM
MikeT23
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Or he can pick any post I made in this thread, quote it and then tell everyone what I really meant.

That would be fun for the whole family.

12/3/2013 12:21 PM
MikeT23
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Here's what happened:

We had this discussion.   A few months later, he brought it up again in another thread.   He said "Yeah, and you said....."   I didn't dispute it because, quite frankly, I don't keep a catalog of every statement I make when trying to make a point.  Nor did I care to have the same argument again.   Nor do I keep a catalog of every statement anyone else makes when trying to make a point.   So BL assumed his assumption was correct.   Then this thread got bumped and it's obvious to everyone he misinterpreted what was said. 

So, sadly, his year long "victory" proves to be not a victory at all.  It simply proves he has interpretation issues. 
12/3/2013 12:27 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 12/3/2013 12:11:00 PM (view original):
Doesn't saying that imply "they both hit for average AND power"?  Aren't those good attributes for position players?  Or in this case, a position player and a DH?
Mike's point was that anyone who votes for one and not the other is an idiot because the players were similar in value. 

They weren't similar in value.
12/3/2013 12:28 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 12/3/2013 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/3/2013 12:11:00 PM (view original):
Doesn't saying that imply "they both hit for average AND power"?  Aren't those good attributes for position players?  Or in this case, a position player and a DH?
Mike's point was that anyone who votes for one and not the other is an idiot because the players were similar in value. 

They weren't similar in value.
So my point in no longer that they were of similar offensive value?    Weren't you claiming that moments ago?
12/3/2013 12:32 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/3/2013 6:55:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/30/2012 7:17:00 PM (view original):

Also, FTR, I'm not going to pollute this thread with petty bickering with you.    I'm just shocked that the guy screaming "DEFENSE AND SPEED" for weeks on end can't see that they're comparable players. 

So, it tec wants to redline bomb this exchange, I don't blame him.   I'll stop but you'll continue on for days.

LOL.  I should have said "but you'll continue for years".

Everything I said about EM/BW is in this thread before 7:17 PM on 11/30/12.   Look it up.  If you interpreted incorrectly, you can go back and read it.  Maybe you'll get it right this year. 

This.
12/3/2013 12:33 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/3/2013 12:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/3/2013 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/3/2013 12:11:00 PM (view original):
Doesn't saying that imply "they both hit for average AND power"?  Aren't those good attributes for position players?  Or in this case, a position player and a DH?
Mike's point was that anyone who votes for one and not the other is an idiot because the players were similar in value. 

They weren't similar in value.
So my point in no longer that they were of similar offensive value?    Weren't you claiming that moments ago?
That was implied when you said they both hit 300 with 25 home runs.
12/3/2013 12:33 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 12/3/2013 12:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/3/2013 12:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/3/2013 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/3/2013 12:11:00 PM (view original):
Doesn't saying that imply "they both hit for average AND power"?  Aren't those good attributes for position players?  Or in this case, a position player and a DH?
Mike's point was that anyone who votes for one and not the other is an idiot because the players were similar in value. 

They weren't similar in value.
So my point in no longer that they were of similar offensive value?    Weren't you claiming that moments ago?
That was implied when you said they both hit 300 with 25 home runs.
That was your misinterpretation.   As everyone but you can clearly see.  

Why don't you keep hammering that point instead of what you posted at 12:28?
12/3/2013 12:35 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/3/2013 12:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/3/2013 12:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/3/2013 12:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/3/2013 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/3/2013 12:11:00 PM (view original):
Doesn't saying that imply "they both hit for average AND power"?  Aren't those good attributes for position players?  Or in this case, a position player and a DH?
Mike's point was that anyone who votes for one and not the other is an idiot because the players were similar in value. 

They weren't similar in value.
So my point in no longer that they were of similar offensive value?    Weren't you claiming that moments ago?
That was implied when you said they both hit 300 with 25 home runs.
That was your misinterpretation.   As everyone but you can clearly see.  

Why don't you keep hammering that point instead of what you posted at 12:28?
Really???

Because you're in the other thread right now arguing that the difference between them offensively was only 1 walk every 8 games.
12/3/2013 12:36 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 11/30/2012 7:08:00 PM (view original):
Holy fuckity ****.   You've yelled "Defense and speed" for months about Trout and Cabrera.   Now you backtrack.   GTFO.
What was I trying to say here?
12/3/2013 2:23 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/3/2013 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/30/2012 7:08:00 PM (view original):
Holy fuckity ****.   You've yelled "Defense and speed" for months about Trout and Cabrera.   Now you backtrack.   GTFO.
What was I trying to say here?
You were calling me a hypocrite because I said that Trout was better in 2012 than Cabrera.

It's not a backtrack. It's two completely different situations. Trout was just about as good as Cabrera with the bat in 2012. In fact, he had a better OPS+. Then, when you factor in Trout's huge advantages in the field and on the bases, it's a landslide. Trout was significantly better than Cabrera in 2012.

On the other hand, Williams was no where near the hitter that Martinez was. To imply otherwise is either retarded or purposefully misleading. Williams' ability to play center (though not well) closes the gap a little, but they are still far enough apart that Martinez is an easy yes vote for me for the hall and Williams isn't even a borderline candidate.
12/3/2013 4:32 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by bad_luck on 12/3/2013 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/3/2013 12:11:00 PM (view original):
Doesn't saying that imply "they both hit for average AND power"?  Aren't those good attributes for position players?  Or in this case, a position player and a DH?
Mike's point was that anyone who votes for one and not the other is an idiot because the players were similar in value. 

They weren't similar in value.
Yet in the "Bernie or Edgar" poll, the voting at the present moment (21 votes) is:

Bernie - 11
Edgar - 10

Sounds like, as a whole, the voters say they are pretty similar in value.

Unless you want to claim that the 11 who voted for Bernie are fucktards.
12/3/2013 4:57 PM
bad_luck
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Do you think that Bernie was better than Edgar???
12/3/2013 5:02 PM
tecwrg
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If I'm building a team and have the pick of players, I'm going to first fill the skilled defensive positions, such as center field, with guys who can play the position and give me well above average offensive production.  I'll worry about the non-skilled positions, such as DH, later.

So if I'm building a team, and I have an opening at CF and and opening at DH, and Bernie and Edgar are the best available players at those positions on the board, I'll pick Bernie.  Every time.

So yes.  I do think Bernie was the better overall player.
12/3/2013 5:22 PM
bad_luck
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And I think Martinez was better. His bat was so good that, even without providing any defensive value, there were years where he was one of the top 3 or 4 players in the AL. That was never true of Williams.
12/3/2013 5:36 PM
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