All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > Theme Leagues > Icon Regressive Rules Discussion
12/1/2012 11:11 PM
So a few rules ammendments have been proposed. Please vote below and use this thread to discuss the options.
12/1/2012 11:14 PM
Career keepers with ERA over 6. and hitters with OPS under .600 could be placed in AAA, if they have fewer than 100 IP or 300 PA.
Proposed by whoscraig.

Votes: 15
(Last vote received: 12/20/2012 10:44 AM)
12/1/2012 11:16 PM
One year Career Keepers are AAA eligible.
Proposed by fabulous

Votes: 16
(Last vote received: 12/20/2012 10:44 AM)
12/2/2012 12:23 AM
Ah, man, why do I only get credit for the first proposal? Btw, those numbers were arbitrarily proposed. No logic went into it.

But to expand on why I put these proposals out there, as I was looking over the 2012 Tigers I was kind of surprised by how many career keepers I have (11).  That's a lot of guys to have on my roster before I ever make a selection.  I imagine this will be the case for a lot of teams in the first few years. Problem is some of these guys are pretty bad; I can't imagine what it must be like for some other teams. Nick Blackburn, anyone?

Anyway, when we were rolling through the 90s, I genuinely felt bad as I unveiled the Mariners' new career keepers each season: Bob Wolcott, Ken Cloude, and Jim Converse stand out.  I also think my Phillies would have had a much better opportunity to win it in the late 90s if we hadn't been so restricted by our keepers. In 1998, for instance, Matt Beech, Carlton Loewer, Mike Grace, and Tyler Green combined for 491 IP and all had ERAs over 5.  It didn't really matter that I had Schilling, Moyer, and Millwood, with those other guys taking up spaces on my roster I couldn't develop my bullpen. Just some thoughts for folks to consider. It's fun regardless.
12/2/2012 12:22 PM
I just thought of another possible solution. What if we expannded rosters to 28 and kept the Keepers (even the bad ones) on our rosters?
12/2/2012 12:29 PM (edited)
I argued for expanded rosters for this reason in the 00's league and it mostly fell on deaf ears.
12/2/2012 12:53 PM
I just thought of another possible solution. What if we expannded rosters to 28 and kept the Keepers (even the bad ones) on our rosters?

Votes: 15
(Last vote received: 1/3/2013 10:34 AM)
12/2/2012 3:07 PM
My thing with the expanded rosters, not sure if I said this before when abf brought it up, is that I think it will allow teams with deeper talent pools—and fewer one and two year keepers—to simply add more talent to their rosters and retain them for longer periods of time.  Not a knock on some fine ballplayers here, but it's easier for a player to break into the bigs with Houston or Kansas City than it is in New York or Atlanta.
12/2/2012 8:55 PM
Do we have to vote?  Part of me agrees that there are some really crappy players that I don't want on my Astros roster, but I think that is what the ICON is all about.  It sort of was designed by CT to take the good and the bad and I think relegating them to a AAA roster spot just because they suck takes away from that.  However, wouldn't it just help the teams like Yankees or Red Sox in the same ways by opening up a roster spot for more talent?  I think I could benefit by moving some of these ****** guys, but I think it benefits my Phillies team WAY more than it benefits my Twins team.
12/2/2012 9:31 PM
I did a real quick check from 2003 - 2012.

The only career keeper that would fall under the "crappy" player rule for the Phillies is Michael Martinez in 2011.

The Twins have Drew Butera in 2010 and 2011, Matt Tolbert in 2011, Scott Baker in 2006, Nick Blackburn in 2012.

I don't care if folks don't want it, but I think if anything it helps level the playing field for teams that were BAD in a given year. If a guy is a core player on a given team, he'll get his IP or ABs regardless of the kind of season he's having: see Adam Dunn, Brandon Inge, et al. I think the added flexibility would be nice.

I really am in favor of just making ALL the one-year guys AAA eligible though. I mean how many of those guys actually started the season on the teams 25-man roster?
12/2/2012 9:41 PM
Posted by whoscraig on 12/2/2012 9:31:00 PM (view original):
I did a real quick check from 2003 - 2012.

The only career keeper that would fall under the "crappy" player rule for the Phillies is Michael Martinez in 2011.

The Twins have Drew Butera in 2010 and 2011, Matt Tolbert in 2011, Scott Baker in 2006, Nick Blackburn in 2012.

I don't care if folks don't want it, but I think if anything it helps level the playing field for teams that were BAD in a given year. If a guy is a core player on a given team, he'll get his IP or ABs regardless of the kind of season he's having: see Adam Dunn, Brandon Inge, et al. I think the added flexibility would be nice.

I really am in favor of just making ALL the one-year guys AAA eligible though. I mean how many of those guys actually started the season on the teams 25-man roster?
I clearly didn't do my research (as proven by Craig) so you've convinced me.  I'm ok with giving it a go ahead.  I just needed further convincing and that has been achieved.
12/7/2012 10:09 AM
Also, what is the verdict on guys who have signed somewhere in winter meetings but won't tout the uniform until April?  Specifically, I'm thinking about the status of Vance Worley and Ben Revere from the Phils to Twins.
12/7/2012 1:31 PM
This league needs some hurryup of final rules
12/7/2012 4:23 PM
Posted by markdidonato on 12/7/2012 10:09:00 AM (view original):
Also, what is the verdict on guys who have signed somewhere in winter meetings but won't tout the uniform until April?  Specifically, I'm thinking about the status of Vance Worley and Ben Revere from the Phils to Twins.
My opinion on this would be that Worley should belong to the Phillies and Revere to the Twins. You never know what will happen. Ryan Madson signed a one-year contract with the Reds last year and never played a game after needing TJ surgery. Now he's on a new team. You never know until they play.
12/7/2012 5:18 PM
Yep, the rules have always been a player doesn't get eligiblity until they play an official regular season game with a new club.
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