Wins and Losses Topic

MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2012 11:34:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2012 11:25:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/4/2012 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2012 11:18:00 AM (view original):

Does assigning WAR tell you anything about what player did to contribute to an individual win or loss?

WAR is calculated, not assigned. And it's cumulative, so you can see how many fractions of a win a player contributed to an individual game.
What if he played well when they lost?   Does he get a fraction of  a win?
Can I get an answer to this one now?
Hello?
12/4/2012 11:52 AM
bad_luck
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So you want me to find a pitcher that had exactly a 16-10 record, and who pitched on a sub-.500 team, and then use other stats to show that he really didn't have a great year?

Pitcher W/L is completely worthless. It tells you less about the pitcher's performance than any other stat commonly used to evaluate pitchers.
12/4/2012 11:53 AM
bad_luck
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This is fun though, please keep farti...I mean talking.
12/4/2012 11:54 AM
mfahie
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I figured you wouldn't be able to back up your ridiculous assertions. Usually happens when you're wrong.
12/4/2012 11:58 AM
tecwrg
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This is what I enjoy about bad_luck (and his previous alias) . . . he will make a stupid and fairly extreme assertion, and rather than realize or acknowledge that maybe he could have said what he was trying to say in a less stupid way, he doubles down on his stupidity and AGGRESIVELY DEFENDS his assertions to the bitter end.

You can't make this **** up.
12/4/2012 11:59 AM
tecwrg
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Posted by tecwrg on 12/4/2012 11:28:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/4/2012 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2012 11:18:00 AM (view original):

Does assigning WAR tell you anything about what player did to contribute to an individual win or loss?

WAR is calculated, not assigned. And it's cumulative, so you can see how many fractions of a win a player contributed to an individual game.
That's cool.  Can you show me how that works?

How many fractions of a win did Mike Trout contribute to the Angels on September 3?
Still waiting for an answer to this.
12/4/2012 12:00 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2012 11:52:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2012 11:34:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2012 11:25:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/4/2012 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2012 11:18:00 AM (view original):

Does assigning WAR tell you anything about what player did to contribute to an individual win or loss?

WAR is calculated, not assigned. And it's cumulative, so you can see how many fractions of a win a player contributed to an individual game.
What if he played well when they lost?   Does he get a fraction of  a win?
Can I get an answer to this one now?
Hello?

No, now I want you to tell me that players get credit towards their WAR even in a losing game.

12/4/2012 12:00 PM
bad_luck
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They do. Positive or negatively based on their individual performance. So player A could hit three home runs and two doubles in a loss and have a positive WAR for the game. Or, he could go 0 for 5 while playing DH in a game his team wins and have a negative WAR for the game.
12/4/2012 12:03 PM
bad_luck
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But we aren't talking about WAR here, we're talking about pitcher W/L, which is completely, 100% useless.
12/4/2012 12:04 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 12/4/2012 12:03:00 PM (view original):
They do. Positive or negatively based on their individual performance. So player A could hit three home runs and two doubles in a loss and have a positive WAR for the game. Or, he could go 0 for 5 while playing DH in a game his team wins and have a negative WAR for the game.
So, IOW, a player can get "points' towards his WINS above replacement player while playing in a losing game.   So, reality, the WINS part is meaningless in WAR.

If nothing else, that explains your thoughts on pitcher's W/L records.

In your venacular, the outcome of the game is unimportant in evaluating a player's performance.   I wonder why they bother keeping score?

12/4/2012 12:08 PM
tecwrg
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LOLSHIPM!!!
12/4/2012 12:10 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2012 12:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/4/2012 12:03:00 PM (view original):
They do. Positive or negatively based on their individual performance. So player A could hit three home runs and two doubles in a loss and have a positive WAR for the game. Or, he could go 0 for 5 while playing DH in a game his team wins and have a negative WAR for the game.
So, IOW, a player can get "points' towards his WINS above replacement player while playing in a losing game.   So, reality, the WINS part is meaningless in WAR.

If nothing else, that explains your thoughts on pitcher's W/L records.

In your venacular, the outcome of the game is unimportant in evaluating a player's performance.   I wonder why they bother keeping score?

Your inability to separate individual performance from team performance explains a lot.
12/4/2012 12:12 PM
MikeT23
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FWIW, I understand that WAR(which does have "WINS" in there) calculations are loosely based on "It all evens out of the course of a season" meaning the good games in losses and bad games in wins largley offset one another.

One could EASILY apply that same principle to the W/L record of a pitcher.
12/4/2012 12:14 PM
bad_luck
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OR, you could completely ignore the useless W/L record and rely on stats that actually reflect the pitcher's performance to make your evaluation.
12/4/2012 12:18 PM
MikeT23
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Why ignore something that tells a part of the story?    I don't think anyone is saying it tells the whole story but it is worthy of a paragraph that is the book of the game.
12/4/2012 12:22 PM
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