How about that..... - Page 16 - The Pit

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Really so when Coke brought out new coke and it flopped so badly should they have given up? I know that is a bit of a stretch. The reason why we stop calling it global warming is because it isnt as accurate to all the symptoms. Climate change is much more accurate because its what is happening in a more broad sense. Global warming sounds nice to the lay person (in other words you Baker) climate change sounds worse except to easily manipulated propagandized drones (in other words you Baker).

Look lets forget about arguing about semantics, it isnt working. Lets introduce cold hard facts, then draw conclusions based on those facts.

#1. 9 of the 10 worst years in terms of arctic summer ice amount has happened in the last 10 years.

#2. Last summer was the worst on record for droughts in massive swaths of both America and Australia. There were huge parts of Australia that hasnt had ANY rain in over a year at the time.

#3. Since 1992 the seas have risen 70 milimetres or just under 3 inches, and it has excellerated in the last 2 years its risen 2 centimetres (just under an inch).

#4. THE world's largest frozen peat bog is melting. An area stretching for a million square kilometres across the permafrost of western Siberia is turning into a mass of shallow lakes as the ground melts, according to Russian researchers just back from the region.

Anyways these are a few facts that I looked up in the last few minutes, if I did a little more searching I could find dozens of things like this. How do you interpret this Baker et al?

4/24/2013 5:40 PM

seamar_116

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Posted by jclarkbaker on 4/24/2013 4:43:00 PM (view original):
Hey pittkid, you know what the scientific consensus was 500 years ago? That the earth was flat. Sorta sounds like the argument you guys make all the time, that "all the scientists agree" re global warmi...oh, my bad, "climate change". So I guess your crowd is the flat earthers.

And seriously, when you've got to rebrand because you're predictions are so ******* bad, it's time to give up.

Uh...no....educated people knew the Earth was round. Hell, the classical Greeks knew the Earth was round. Your grasp of scientific thought is seriously lacking. You think no sailors ever went beyond the horizon? You don't think people who lived in ports saw ships return from out of sight? When you say things like that how can anyone take you to be a well-educated person whose opinion is worth considering?

4/24/2013 6:09 PM

jiml60

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Posted by jclarkbaker on 4/24/2013 4:43:00 PM (view original):
Hey pittkid, you know what the scientific consensus was 500 years ago? That the earth was flat. Sorta sounds like the argument you guys make all the time, that "all the scientists agree" re global warmi...oh, my bad, "climate change". So I guess your crowd is the flat earthers.

And seriously, when you've got to rebrand because you're predictions are so ******* bad, it's time to give up.

4/24/2013 8:01 PM

slowmoe

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You're the group that suddenly knows the future by taking a tiny sliver of time and jumping to massively unsupported conclusions..
Have the seas ever risen before? Have the peat bogs ever been warmer? Have there ever been droughts or snowfall or warmth or cold or hurricanes ever ever ever in the history of the planet? According to you, the earth just sat here, calm and peaceful, in a steady state of climate for 4 billion years, then man came by and suddenly the wind picks up? And you can see this with observations that may or may not go all the way back to .00001% of the age of the planet?
You're just hysterical hypochondriacs gulping down the koolaid.
So stop calling what you do 'science'. It's like calling Peter Pan a documentary.

4/24/2013 8:33 PM

jclarkbaker

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Posted by seamar_116 on 4/24/2013 6:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jclarkbaker on 4/24/2013 4:43:00 PM (view original):
Hey pittkid, you know what the scientific consensus was 500 years ago? That the earth was flat. Sorta sounds like the argument you guys make all the time, that "all the scientists agree" re global warmi...oh, my bad, "climate change". So I guess your crowd is the flat earthers.

And seriously, when you've got to rebrand because you're predictions are so ******* bad, it's time to give up.

Uh...no....educated people knew the Earth was round. Hell, the classical Greeks knew the Earth was round. Your grasp of scientific thought is seriously lacking. You think no sailors ever went beyond the horizon? You don't think people who lived in ports saw ships return from out of sight? When you say things like that how can anyone take you to be a well-educated person whose opinion is worth considering?

Don't get the irony?

4/24/2013 10:21 PM (edited)

seamar_116

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<<Posted by jclarkbaker on 4/24/2013 4:43:00 PM (view original):
Hey pittkid, you know what the scientific consensus was 500 years ago? That the earth was flat. >>

You are going to stand by that? Seriously?

<<Uh...no....educated people knew the Earth was round. Hell, the classical Greeks knew the Earth was round. Your grasp of scientific thought is seriously lacking. You think no sailors ever went beyond the horizon? You don't think people who lived in ports saw ships return from out of sight? When you say things like that how can anyone take you to be a well-educated person whose opinion is worth considering?>>

<<Rich.>> Wow...that is an insightful response and really shoots me down. Enlighten me please. Show me the "Scientific Consensus" 500 years ago that the earth was flat. You are approaching swamp-like reasoning now.

4/24/2013 10:22 PM

seamar_116

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Posted by slowmoe on 4/24/2013 8:33:00 PM (view original):
You're the group that suddenly knows the future by taking a tiny sliver of time and jumping to massively unsupported conclusions..
Have the seas ever risen before? Have the peat bogs ever been warmer? Have there ever been droughts or snowfall or warmth or cold or hurricanes ever ever ever in the history of the planet? According to you, the earth just sat here, calm and peaceful, in a steady state of climate for 4 billion years, then man came by and suddenly the wind picks up? And you can see this with observations that may or may not go all the way back to .00001% of the age of the planet?
You're just hysterical hypochondriacs gulping down the koolaid.
So stop calling what you do 'science'. It's like calling Peter Pan a documentary.

moe...you are really the ignorant one here...ignoring billions of years of process. You are like those that says weather = climate.

As I already pointed out to jclark, (and he had no response), the biosphere has pulled carbon out of the atmosphere over billions of years and we are now releasing that carbon back into the atmosphere in 200 years time. Do you understand how systems work? Do you understand the concept of equilibrium? Do you really not see any problem with reversing a multi-billion year process in 200 years? None?

Species are disappearing from the planet now at a rate comparable to that of the asteroid 65 million years ago that took out the dinos.

The problem is people who equate science with a political agenda, and use their political agenda to drive the science. And although people on both sides do it...ignoring the solid research on anthropomorphic global climate change is the height of hubris.

4/24/2013 10:30 PM

bagchucker

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lucky we live in a democracy, where votes out-vote science!

it will be funny when god gets exasperated enough to step down and waggle his finger at us

4/24/2013 10:59 PM

slowmoe

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The biosphere has also been putting it back into the atmosphere for 4 billion years.    Before the poisonous oxygen was pumped into the atmosphere, carbon dioxide was the norm.
Do you understand the concept of change? The earth has been putting up with volcanos, rising and falling land and sea, reduction and oxidizing atmospheres, storage and release of carbonates, nitrogen, and every other gas.    You actually think mannkind is all powerful enough to make a difference?   We can dig into and take stuff out of a tiny fraction of the earth to a depth of 3 kilometers, on a planet 12,600 kilometers in diameter.
Every person on earth could live in a 10 foot cube inside the grand canyon, which is just a scratch on the surface of the planet.    So save your stories about how we are causing some trees species to die out.  The planet could wipe us out with a good string of earthquakes and volcanos - without us doing anything.
Your models don't work.   You don't know enough about the interacton between chemistry, physics, biology, or mathematics to even make a stab in the dark about the climate 50 years from now.
You should be more worried about the bird/human influenza crossover in SE asia that's killed 100 people already.   That's some science that could be helpful and measured.

4/24/2013 11:27 PM

greeny9

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Yep Slow, the climate has been changing wildly over the entire history of the Earth. But you see the problem here is that its changing at human lifescales now, It used to take thousands even tens of thousands of years to see the kind of change that has happened just in the last 100 years. That is the truth. The Earth will survive, and certainly more then a few lifeforms will survive humans destruction, probably humanity itself too, but at numbers that dwarf todays population. You feel as though you can bet the farm that you are right, I am not willing to take that bet. I have a 6yr old that I want to see live on the Earth without having to kill or be killed. Thats the future I am hoping against all hope he will be able to not live with. So, I take it personally when Neanderthals like you Swamp and Baker spew your corporate propaganda.

4/24/2013 11:57 PM

seamar_116

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Posted by greeny9 on 4/24/2013 11:57:00 PM (view original):
Yep Slow, the climate has been changing wildly over the entire history of the Earth. But you see the problem here is that its changing at human lifescales now, It used to take thousands even tens of thousands of years to see the kind of change that has happened just in the last 100 years. That is the truth. The Earth will survive, and certainly more then a few lifeforms will survive humans destruction, probably humanity itself too, but at numbers that dwarf todays population. You feel as though you can bet the farm that you are right, I am not willing to take that bet. I have a 6yr old that I want to see live on the Earth without having to kill or be killed. Thats the future I am hoping against all hope he will be able to not live with. So, I take it personally when Neanderthals like you Swamp and Baker spew your corporate propaganda.

greeny...no need to denigrate actual Neanderthals...this crew is something else entirely.

4/25/2013 12:15 AM

slowmoe

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"But you see the problem here is that its changing at human lifescales now, It used to take thousands even tens of thousands of years to see the kind of change that has happened just in the last 100 years. That is the truth"

Really? You have no clue that is happening. No frame of reference, no 'truth' that 100 years = 10,000 former years. You are just wildly guessing, using models you can't repeat, innacurate data you cherry-pick, and feelings you get from who knows where. Next you'll be spouting about climatologist angels dancing on the head of a pin.
Come back with some sort of real data, and not mindless religious dogma, when you have it, which you won't be able to get and will have to be made up. In the meantime, continue your panic about nuclear power, your love of uninivented technology, and your money-is-no-object-as-long-as-it-isn't-mine attitude toward fixing something, anything.

4/25/2013 1:01 AM

seamar_116

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Posted by slowmoe on 4/25/2013 1:01:00 AM (view original):
"But you see the problem here is that its changing at human lifescales now, It used to take thousands even tens of thousands of years to see the kind of change that has happened just in the last 100 years. That is the truth"

Really? You have no clue that is happening. No frame of reference, no 'truth' that 100 years = 10,000 former years. You are just wildly guessing, using models you can't repeat, innacurate data you cherry-pick, and feelings you get from who knows where. Next you'll be spouting about climatologist angels dancing on the head of a pin.
Come back with some sort of real data, and not mindless religious dogma, when you have it, which you won't be able to get and will have to be made up. In the meantime, continue your panic about nuclear power, your love of uninivented technology, and your money-is-no-object-as-long-as-it-isn't-mine attitude toward fixing something, anything.

well Moe...you can continue your willful ignorance...it really won't matter. You use a lot of words that have emotional appeal...so I guess that is an admission on your part that you really don't have anything specific or measurable to offer. Ice core samples, dendrochronology, lake sediment cores, glaciers, pollen analysis...there are many pieces of evidence available that say you are wrong. But as I said, it doesn't really matter what you think you know.

4/25/2013 1:43 AM

slowmoe

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And what do all those tests show? There used to be less co2 at some points in the fairly immediate past? And...? They also show there was more ice, oh wait, less ice, oh wait, then more ice, and oh yeah, less ice. The earth became a big ball of frozen methane, and all life ended. No? The earth had so little co2 in it, and so much oxygen, that it burned to a cinder, ended all oxidation, and all life ended. There used to be bigger reptiles than there are now. Less plant life. More plant life. More methane. Less methane. Why? How? What was the effect? What will be the effect? Doesn't matter, as long as somebody does something. What's the solution? You have no idea, but better to panic anyway.
It's true I cannot disprove a negative. You got me there. So keep on with your science fiction. Keep donating other people's money to failing green companies. It's not science, but it's all you have.
Talk about willful ignorance.

4/25/2013 2:24 AM

jclarkbaker

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Posted by seamar_116 on 4/24/2013 10:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by slowmoe on 4/24/2013 8:33:00 PM (view original):
You're the group that suddenly knows the future by taking a tiny sliver of time and jumping to massively unsupported conclusions..
Have the seas ever risen before? Have the peat bogs ever been warmer? Have there ever been droughts or snowfall or warmth or cold or hurricanes ever ever ever in the history of the planet? According to you, the earth just sat here, calm and peaceful, in a steady state of climate for 4 billion years, then man came by and suddenly the wind picks up? And you can see this with observations that may or may not go all the way back to .00001% of the age of the planet?
You're just hysterical hypochondriacs gulping down the koolaid.
So stop calling what you do 'science'. It's like calling Peter Pan a documentary.

moe...you are really the ignorant one here...ignoring billions of years of process. You are like those that says weather = climate.

As I already pointed out to jclark, (and he had no response), the biosphere has pulled carbon out of the atmosphere over billions of years and we are now releasing that carbon back into the atmosphere in 200 years time. Do you understand how systems work? Do you understand the concept of equilibrium? Do you really not see any problem with reversing a multi-billion year process in 200 years? None?

Species are disappearing from the planet now at a rate comparable to that of the asteroid 65 million years ago that took out the dinos.

The problem is people who equate science with a political agenda, and use their political agenda to drive the science. And although people on both sides do it...ignoring the solid research on anthropomorphic global climate change is the height of hubris.

"Do you understand how systems work? Do you understand the concept of equilibrium? Do you really not see any problem with reversing a multi-billion year process in 200 years? None"

Do you understand how simple you sound?

4/25/2013 10:35 AM

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