Posted by seamar_116 on 2/7/2013 11:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by swamphawk22 on 2/7/2013 8:40:00 PM (view original):
1 you are right..I meant isnt. Had 2 thoughts and deleted part of it and the tense changed and I missed it.

2 Hard question. Some things...

A. There would have been more support for Monarchys.
B. England would have had more power over the world.
C. The idea of freedom that eventually led to a Democratic Europe would have been delayed.

Hard to make more specific ideas.

Would Communism come to Russia? Would Hitler rise to power?

Eventually there would be a major war between the ideas of Democratic values against tyranny and tyranny might have won because there would be no US to aid them.

1. What evidence do you have that their would have been more support for monarchies? In what ways does the existence of the US raise or lower support for monarchy? The Enlightenment, a European intellectual movement, would still have been in place. It was French support of the US that caused the financial crisis in France that led to their revolution. French intellectuals were already looking at the more liberal English constitutional monarchy and parliament anyway. Changes would have enventually come with or without the US. One might even argue that with the US as a emigration destination for those discontent with life in Europe that the US helped delay reform and democracy as the agents for change simply left Europe.

2. England already had as much power as the could handle. The English method of controlling the colonies was nothing like their method of ruling the rest of the Empire. Technology and logistics were what they were. If anything, continued control over North America would have limited Britain's ability to control other places.

3. More of your nonsense regarding freedom. You continually bash Socialist Europe, but now you want to trot out Democratic Europe? wtf?

You have no idea what other cultures value; you are just a zealot for your black and white, nut-job, right-wing (not conservative) world view.

1 I never said it would make all monarchys permenant. It would just slow the pace. The American revolution spread the ideas of liberty.

2 I can understand this point from a purely math standpoint. The Empire cannot be embarressed. If the rest of the people you are pushing around see a bunch of nothings kick your *** it leads to ideas.

3 And our win caused a subtle ripple in the world.

The main point is we brought down the Spainish Empire. We saved the world from the Kaiser. We stopped the Japanese and saved the English. We also helped the Soviets. We stopped the Soviets from dominating the world and eventually defeated the evil empire. We are fighting global terror.

What if we were not there?