Posted by MikeT23 on 7/11/2013 10:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 10:48:00 AM (view original):
The harm is that it's being watched.  Not that it's "out there."

I think I disagree with your premise.   The harm is that it's being produced and purchased.

While I think someone who enjoys watching it is disturbed, he's not producing it or creating a demand for production by purchasing it. 

Do you disagree?  If so, why?

The major harm to your child is that it was made and the event happened in the first place.  But as tec mentions several times, that's irrelevant to this very specific scenario.

There's also harm after the fact knowing that people are watching it.  If it's my kid, I'm distraught that the event took place, but that feeling lingers knowing that people are getting off watching it.

Posted by tecwrg on 7/11/2013 10:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 10:48:00 AM (view original):
The harm is that it's being watched.  Not that it's "out there."

How do you know it's being watched?

Are you suggested that porn was made and nobody watched it?  Really?  Odds are slim.  The family of the child will assume it's been/being watched by someone.  And in your scenario, they are right.

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 10:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/11/2013 10:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 10:48:00 AM (view original):
The harm is that it's being watched.  Not that it's "out there."

I think I disagree with your premise.   The harm is that it's being produced and purchased.

While I think someone who enjoys watching it is disturbed, he's not producing it or creating a demand for production by purchasing it. 

Do you disagree?  If so, why?

The major harm to your child is that it was made and the event happened in the first place.  But as tec mentions several times, that's irrelevant to this very specific scenario.

There's also harm after the fact knowing that people are watching it.  If it's my kid, I'm distraught that the event took place, but that feeling lingers knowing that people are getting off watching it.

I think we're talking about two different things.    I get the harm, the angst and the lingering feeling.    But none of that has to do with JoePerv finding a discarded CD in the trash and watching it.     I think the lingering feeling will be with you for the rest of your life. 

That lingering feeling is there because you know people are watching it after that fact.  Your child didn't just get raped, but he got raped on video and people are watching it.  Including JoePerv.

Posted by tecwrg on 7/11/2013 7:27:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/10/2013 11:39:00 PM (view original):
I'm still trying to find the point of comparing gay marriage to watching child pornography.

I'm not comparing gay marriage to watching child porn.

I'm exploring BL's "big three" criteria of (a) "it makes them happy", (b) "it doesn't affect others", and (c) "what's the harm" that he used in defense of allowing gay marriage.  He seems to be uncomfortable with applying the same criteria to watching child porn. 

So the "big three" doesn't appear to be a "one size fits all" approach to determining what should be allowed and what shouldn't.

I'm trying to figure out what the missing additional criteria is in BL's mind.

I suspect it's "because I said so".  I'm waiting for him to either confirm or convincingly deny that.

So you admit that gay marriage is harmless?

Person X is going to babysit your kids.  Would you rather he found the porn in the garbage and watched it, or he didn't see the porn in the garbage?  Or is there no preference between the two?

I disagree.  I think the lingering feeling is there because you'd know your child's life has been changed forever and there's nothing, including getting every copy of the CD off the streets, that will change that.

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 11:11:00 AM (view original):
Person X is going to babysit your kids.  Would you rather he found the porn in the garbage and watched it, or he didn't see the porn in the garbage?  Or is there no preference between the two?

I'll ask again, is he predisposed to molest children?

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/11/2013 11:12:00 AM (view original):
I disagree.  I think the lingering feeling is there because you'd know your child's life has been changed forever and there's nothing, including getting every copy of the CD off the streets, that will change that.

Yes, that's true.  It's also true that you'd want all the CDs off the streets.  Knowing that you can't do that also hurts.

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/11/2013 11:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 11:11:00 AM (view original):
Person X is going to babysit your kids.  Would you rather he found the porn in the garbage and watched it, or he didn't see the porn in the garbage?  Or is there no preference between the two?

I'll ask again, is he predisposed to molest children?

He's sexually attracted to children, obviously.

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/11/2013 11:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 11:11:00 AM (view original):
Person X is going to babysit your kids.  Would you rather he found the porn in the garbage and watched it, or he didn't see the porn in the garbage?  Or is there no preference between the two?

I'll ask again, is he predisposed to molest children?

He's sexually attracted to children, obviously.

Then I don't really care what he's done 15 minutes prior to showing up to babysit.  I don't want him near my kids. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/11/2013 11:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/11/2013 11:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 11:11:00 AM (view original):
Person X is going to babysit your kids.  Would you rather he found the porn in the garbage and watched it, or he didn't see the porn in the garbage?  Or is there no preference between the two?

I'll ask again, is he predisposed to molest children?

He's sexually attracted to children, obviously.

Then I don't really care what he's done 15 minutes prior to showing up to babysit.  I don't want him near my kids. 

So you have no preference.

So what are potential effects of watching child porn?  My opinions on what could happen were poo-pooed by you and tec.

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 11:26:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/11/2013 11:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/11/2013 11:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/11/2013 11:11:00 AM (view original):
Person X is going to babysit your kids.  Would you rather he found the porn in the garbage and watched it, or he didn't see the porn in the garbage?  Or is there no preference between the two?

I'll ask again, is he predisposed to molest children?

He's sexually attracted to children, obviously.

Then I don't really care what he's done 15 minutes prior to showing up to babysit.  I don't want him near my kids. 

So you have no preference.

So what are potential effects of watching child porn?  My opinions on what could happen were poo-pooed by you and tec.

I think it's the behavior of a deviant.   Deviant behavior isn't good for society.    That said, if he watched one CD he found in the trash over and over again in the privacy of his home, there's not much effect on society if that's where the line is drawn.    He's spending time doing something unproductive but we all waste time.  However, as it's a deviant behavior, I'm not sure that line can be drawn.   I believe someone that obsessed would probably want more.   Therein lies the problem.  Now he's on the fringe.  Outside the norm. 

But, if he draws that line, there is no further effect of viewing said video that isn't already there.

Should it be illegal for him to posses that child porn?

Is child porn harmless?