All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Multiple teams in one world
4/17/2013 1:45 PM
Posted by seble on 4/17/2013 12:58:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for all the feedback - there are good arguments on both sides, that's why this is such a tough issue to solve.  There are probably too many downsides to a change for anything to happen now. 

Another option we've discussed (but I forgot to include) is to keep the current distance restriction, but to allow the same account multiple times in a world.  Then at least there would be transparency in which teams are owned by which person, and we'd then be able to build in some preventative measures, such as limiting available jobs based on the distance restriction.  This is somewhat problematic logistically though, because the game was built on the assumption that an account could have just one team per world.

Anyway, I do appreciate all the feedback.  The forum polls are a nice tool for this kind of thing, so I'll try to use it from time to time.


I think this is the best option, considering it's not an ideal situation.

At least this way, other users would see the transperancy and would have some idea if cheating was going on....

Ultimately I'd like to see one user per world enacted.
4/17/2013 1:48 PM
The  reason I've considered adding a user name and having multiple teams in one world is because I want to move up a division but don't want to lose the team I've built my way for however many seasons I've been there.

Currently I have not done so, and have only the five teams under this user name.

I want to move up in one of my worlds and was planning to add a user name and use it to take over the team once I move up, but as long as it doesn't take too long I may wait to see what seble's decision is on this matter before I do it.


4/17/2013 1:51 PM
here is a suggestion - make it a rule that if you have more than one team in a world you MUST disclose that fact.  There could be a forum thread where people declare their ID's. 

Or maybe even you could add a field to the owner info that allows you to name other ID's.  I'd have two fields - one for other ID's of the same person and one for other related ID's - son, father, spouse (what a bad idea that would be), brother-in-law...etc

THEN,  the natural followup is that any UNDECLARED multiple team (just the first category, a second owned ID) is a violation and upon discovery one team must go.

Its like customs where you have to declare stuff or like a prospectus where you have to disclose it.


4/17/2013 2:04 PM (edited)
Posted by mamxet on 4/17/2013 1:51:00 PM (view original):
here is a suggestion - make it a rule that if you have more than one team in a world you MUST disclose that fact.  There could be a forum thread where people declare their ID's. 

Or maybe even you could add a field to the owner info that allows you to name other ID's.  I'd have two fields - one for other ID's of the same person and one for other related ID's - son, father, spouse (what a bad idea that would be), brother-in-law...etc

THEN,  the natural followup is that any UNDECLARED multiple team (just the first category, a second owned ID) is a violation and upon discovery one team must go.

Its like customs where you have to declare stuff or like a prospectus where you have to disclose it.


Not a bad idea maxmet,  but don't let the NRA find out about it. LOL  Sounds like universal background checks.

I'm joking, of course.   I don't want to start a political discussion here.

4/17/2013 2:03 PM
I haven't read all the posts --- but I don't understand how one can not be influenced by having mutiple teams in one world.

Obviously it's all about the scouting.  Even if I have my teams scout the same states, there is still the knowledge gained by knowing which states to NOT scout for the other team in that world.  There is the advantage of seeing more states scouted, and knowing which states to avoid with each school.  

For example:  let's say I have a team in Florida (D3 school) and California (D1 school).  California school scouts the entire western side of the county.  The Florida schools scouts the Southwest.  Florida school sees a 'gem' in West (which he didn't scout).  Decides to scout West state of said 'gem' player.  He says - 'hey it's fair - I scouted that state with both teams!"

The only way I see it working is that each school limits recruiting to a specific area (that don't overlap) and before recruiting starts determine what states will be alloted to each school.  That way the knowledge gained as soon as the "blind is broken" cannot influence the actions of the other school.



4/17/2013 2:13 PM
Posted by alblack56 on 4/17/2013 12:17:00 PM (view original):
I've had multiple teams in a world, all of  them for more than 50 seasons.  At the time I bought them, there was no FSS and no potential. I don't relish being forced to give up teams that I've nurtured since 2004.  I'd seriously consider quitting the game entirely if it comes to pass.
I also agree with alblack.  I've been playing since 2004 and have had issues with family members living in the same house  and competing with each other.  If restricted the number of teams that I and my son coach would drop and it is a strong possibliity that we would just call  it a day. Maybe nine years and $$$$ is enough.  I and my son follow all the rules with regard to spacing of teams, recruiting, and being in the same league, etc.....  You are playing with a real situation that would, in many ways  gut the sim of live coaches that would follow the rules set down.  I know I would and that would be that.
4/17/2013 2:29 PM (edited)
Posted by brianxavier on 4/17/2013 2:03:00 PM (view original):
I haven't read all the posts --- but I don't understand how one can not be influenced by having mutiple teams in one world.

Obviously it's all about the scouting.  Even if I have my teams scout the same states, there is still the knowledge gained by knowing which states to NOT scout for the other team in that world.  There is the advantage of seeing more states scouted, and knowing which states to avoid with each school.  

For example:  let's say I have a team in Florida (D3 school) and California (D1 school).  California school scouts the entire western side of the county.  The Florida schools scouts the Southwest.  Florida school sees a 'gem' in West (which he didn't scout).  Decides to scout West state of said 'gem' player.  He says - 'hey it's fair - I scouted that state with both teams!"

The only way I see it working is that each school limits recruiting to a specific area (that don't overlap) and before recruiting starts determine what states will be alloted to each school.  That way the knowledge gained as soon as the "blind is broken" cannot influence the actions of the other school.



my rule for myself in d1 has been for many years, to never scout the same team with both, and to only recruit players ive scouted. so i see your point. but d1 to d3... i mean really, you HAVE to be trying to cheat. you dont look through d1 recruits and find d3 players, or visa versa. maybe if you were talking about two d1 schools, or even a d1 mid major and d2, i could buy it. its a conscious decision though. like i mentioned in that other thread that started all this, twice ive wanted to naturally battle the same school with both my d1 schols, but i had to choose. all the time in d1, with a d2 team or no, ill find a player and go - man, that would be a great pickup for some d2 school. in tark, i have a d2 school. so you can stop and mark that player in your mind or just continue to breeze through, and by the time you finish going through all the players for an area, you dont even remember. at least i dont. especially using the HD recruiting interface, scouting through several hundred players quickly, i cant even remember the guys i like for the team im looking for! i mean, ill remember like, there was that guard i really liked... but not his name or where hes from.

anyway, thats just my experience, and im SURE there are people who abuse it, given the hundreds of ghost shipped free HD teams who existed theoretically for FSS sharing and FSS sharing only. but i do think honest coaches can go through with very, very minimal "unintentional advantages" if you will. the place i feel the unintentional advantage comes into play a bit is learning about the tendencies of other coaches. ill coach near a guy on one d1 team, and then he moves near my other, and now i know stuff about him i otherwise wouldnt. its happened a few times and i think that is the biggest unintentional advantage ive gained (although he can basically know more about me than he should, too, which basically cancels it out - and is basically equivalent to playing near each other in another world). at one point when i was really into the game, i felt that was important enough, that i dropped my 2nd d1 tark team when it got close to the first (i felt a low mid major and a+ BCS were still ok). but when i stopped watching things like a hawk, i picked one back up. its definitely a grey area, but i think when you are looking at a for-fun game like HD, if there is something that makes the game massively more fun, with extremely minor nit picks of unintentional advantages, the making the for-fun game more fun is more important. especially when there are a bunch of similar nit pick disadvantages to the situation to balance them out. 
4/17/2013 2:27 PM
Posted by brianxavier on 4/17/2013 2:03:00 PM (view original):
I haven't read all the posts --- but I don't understand how one can not be influenced by having mutiple teams in one world.

Obviously it's all about the scouting.  Even if I have my teams scout the same states, there is still the knowledge gained by knowing which states to NOT scout for the other team in that world.  There is the advantage of seeing more states scouted, and knowing which states to avoid with each school.  

For example:  let's say I have a team in Florida (D3 school) and California (D1 school).  California school scouts the entire western side of the county.  The Florida schools scouts the Southwest.  Florida school sees a 'gem' in West (which he didn't scout).  Decides to scout West state of said 'gem' player.  He says - 'hey it's fair - I scouted that state with both teams!"

The only way I see it working is that each school limits recruiting to a specific area (that don't overlap) and before recruiting starts determine what states will be alloted to each school.  That way the knowledge gained as soon as the "blind is broken" cannot influence the actions of the other school.



This is how I feel about this whole situation too, and I like your solution.
4/17/2013 2:31 PM
Posted by jdno on 4/17/2013 12:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jkumpulanian on 4/17/2013 11:57:00 AM (view original):
My brother-in-law and I both coach in the same world (same conference even). Could we collude and scout different states and share info?  Of course we could.  Do we? No, we don't.  Call it a gentlemen's agreement. I'm sure that there are people who do share info on recruits, etc. You are never going to stop this.  But why allow people to make multiple IDs in the same world to make this sort of "collusion" easier?
I propose we don't let family members compete in the same world.  Family members talk together, why should we make it "easier" for them to share recruiting information?  One family member, one world!!
Lofl, this is a joke, right?  This is beyond policeable, and the premise is ridiculous.  Some/many of you are going off the deep end in reaction to what happened.
4/17/2013 2:34 PM
Posted by jdno on 4/17/2013 12:24:00 PM (view original):
**sigh** see above billy
At least 3 people "missed" the sarcasm...it doesn't come off as sarcasm...the only thing that suggests it is the multiple exclamation points at the end.
4/17/2013 2:37 PM
Posted by coach_billyg on 4/17/2013 12:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by kcsundevil on 4/17/2013 12:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by alblack56 on 4/17/2013 12:17:00 PM (view original):
I've had multiple teams in a world, all of  them for more than 50 seasons.  At the time I bought them, there was no FSS and no potential. I don't relish being forced to give up teams that I've nurtured since 2004.  I'd seriously consider quitting the game entirely if it comes to pass.
WIS could turn off the HD servers tomorrow if they wanted to, and they change the rules of the game through updates sporadically. The "I'm 50 seasons in" argument is sympathetic, but not really compelling.

the problem is the guys with teams for 50 seasons are long standing members and are pretty important parts of the community. heres a really quick list of a few long time coaches who have or had multiple teams in a world... some dont have them anymore, i think, but this rule has been debated over the years, and all these guys have had mutiple teams when multiple teams were being debated...
coach_billyg/gillispie
alblack
emy/dcy
girt/daalter
oldresorter/ryan75
lostmyth
acn/oldwarrior

hell, half the people on chapelhillne's championship list have multiple IDs (if not more). half the coaches in my conferences have multiple IDs. wiping those veteran teams out might sound good for a minute, it would at least get easier to win championships! and im sure a few of the multiple team guys are cheating and so youd catch a few cheaters, too - just like you would wiping out ANY segment of this game's population. but i honestly dont think the game can survive wiping out so many teams from so many of the stable long term members of the community. 

theres also a pretty valid reason people get grandfathered in to rule/law changes in so many other settings...

I would ban all these guys!!!!1 ;)
4/17/2013 2:41 PM
Posted by colonels19 on 4/17/2013 2:31:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jdno on 4/17/2013 12:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jkumpulanian on 4/17/2013 11:57:00 AM (view original):
My brother-in-law and I both coach in the same world (same conference even). Could we collude and scout different states and share info?  Of course we could.  Do we? No, we don't.  Call it a gentlemen's agreement. I'm sure that there are people who do share info on recruits, etc. You are never going to stop this.  But why allow people to make multiple IDs in the same world to make this sort of "collusion" easier?
I propose we don't let family members compete in the same world.  Family members talk together, why should we make it "easier" for them to share recruiting information?  One family member, one world!!
Lofl, this is a joke, right?  This is beyond policeable, and the premise is ridiculous.  Some/many of you are going off the deep end in reaction to what happened.
et tu colonels?
4/17/2013 2:42 PM
Posted by pepwaves on 4/17/2013 1:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jenningss on 4/17/2013 1:20:00 PM (view original):
I had a 2nd account years ago where I just added a "1" to my account name because I'm lazy but also wanted to be transparent. I used it for a D3 conference where there were a lot of good coaches I enjoyed losing to.

I feel a middlin solution is not perfect but a good compromise.

No multiple accounts.
Switch current multiple accounts to a single account. 
Allow a single account to have a team at D3, D2, D1, in each world.

If this would allow someone in Alblacks situation to continue to play then I'm for it. Heck, he could track coaching changes!
This is the best solution I've seen.

+1
I like this too, I think you could fill worlds like this.

It's kinda funny because I want to coach D1, but the only world I can do it in is a world where I've coached 30 seasons at my D2 school (Mount Olive) and have never had any intention of leaving...I'm just a hair short in Tark and Knight (presumably), but an idea like this would/could certainly clear things up and spark more interest on multiple levels.

4/17/2013 2:42 PM
Posted by jdno on 4/17/2013 2:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 4/17/2013 2:31:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jdno on 4/17/2013 12:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jkumpulanian on 4/17/2013 11:57:00 AM (view original):
My brother-in-law and I both coach in the same world (same conference even). Could we collude and scout different states and share info?  Of course we could.  Do we? No, we don't.  Call it a gentlemen's agreement. I'm sure that there are people who do share info on recruits, etc. You are never going to stop this.  But why allow people to make multiple IDs in the same world to make this sort of "collusion" easier?
I propose we don't let family members compete in the same world.  Family members talk together, why should we make it "easier" for them to share recruiting information?  One family member, one world!!
Lofl, this is a joke, right?  This is beyond policeable, and the premise is ridiculous.  Some/many of you are going off the deep end in reaction to what happened.
et tu colonels?
I got the sarcasm jd!!
4/17/2013 2:44 PM
Posted by colonels19 on 4/17/2013 2:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jdno on 4/17/2013 12:24:00 PM (view original):
**sigh** see above billy
At least 3 people "missed" the sarcasm...it doesn't come off as sarcasm...the only thing that suggests it is the multiple exclamation points at the end.
It'd say it came off pretty strongly as sarcasm, but sarcasm in text is often tricky. 
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