All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Should coach firings in D1 occur more frequently?
5/26/2013 4:22 PM
55-0 ha
5/27/2013 1:51 AM
62-0. There's close, and there's this. WIS, you like forum polls right? Get crackin', y'all
5/27/2013 2:51 PM
I think we are making this issue more complicated than it really is. EVERYBODY who signed up to play this games clearly knows the process of earning your way to D1 and understand you have to perform reasonably when you get there or be fired. Don't be concerned for the older players.From the veterans I have talked to everyone of them advanced knowing this is a competitive game and they would have to perform or drop down and start the climb again. They accepted this and HD did not lose them because the rules they agreed to were fairly applied. If they lost their D1 job, they could usually get any lower D1 job or top D2 job they wanted.

The real problem is not the potential loss of coaches. The real problem is that for whatever reason WIS/HD quit applying the rules that the players thought they would have to play by. I believe this is the reason that D1 is deteriorating. Good competitive coaches stay at D2 because they don't want to go to D1 and get their tails beat for years with no opportunity to advance. D1 is where being a good coach means the least. It's totally recruiting and scheduling and early entries.

The simple solution is go back to the original rules on firings and cleanup D1. I bet you you will retain far more than you lose. If you lose anyone at all,  alot of them will be coaches who quit playing the game along time ago.

The other area that should be changed is after the first half of hirings, reduce the requirements for the hire so decent programs are not destroyed by the Simmies. That process will be kept clean by applying the proper firings rules. This issue is addressed in another forum here.
5/27/2013 2:57 PM
Sorry, I forgot to add the ever present "Baseline Prestige" to paragraph 2 above.
5/27/2013 3:16 PM
Posted by girt25 on 5/25/2013 1:00:00 AM (view original):
Posted by metsmax on 5/24/2013 9:32:00 PM (view original):
I doubt they have studied data.  There isnt much data to study.  There should be more firings.

The smart answer would be to give you a free season - not transferable to another world - to go with the firing.  That would encourage people to give it another.  Heck, I should have been fired at a couple of places.
Agreed with all of this, metsmax.

And though I voted yes, I would amend to say "BCS firings". I see no need to fire low/mid DI coaches.

Hasn't it been stated on too many occasions to count, that trying to resurrect a bottom dweller in a BCS conference is one of the hardest things to do in this game, given all the factors conspiring against that school?  So is it going to change next to, well, only BCS schools, but only those with an A or A+ baseline prestige because it's too damn hard to turn around those bottom of the barrel BCS schools and damnit, we need to cut those guys a break?  There's no need to distinguish between a BCS school and a low-level D1 school when it comes to firings.  If a coach isn't getting the job down at D1 Podunk U., he knew the potential consequences when he moved up to D1, so cut his *** loose.  If he can't win at Podunk U., he's not making it to a BCS school anyway, ever, so cut the cord and send him back down to D2.  If he wants to try D1 again, let him work his way back up the ladder just like the BCS coach is forced to do.  If you're going to do it, do it right and go all the way.  Half-assing things is one of the reasons that HD is in several of the jams they're in right now.  Should have done the right thing the first time, a long time ago.
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
5/27/2013 9:03 PM
Posted by stinenavy on 5/27/2013 3:31:00 PM (view original):
Oh good lord, emy the cheater talking about doing the right thing the first time, when he chose to ignore the rules for a year because they were to his detriment.
emy, if its any consolation, if you saw a picture of this guy... he looks like JUST as big a douchebag as he comes across here. i dont know about you, but that made me feel a little better about the whole situation.
5/27/2013 9:20 PM
Posted by emy1013 on 5/27/2013 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by girt25 on 5/25/2013 1:00:00 AM (view original):
Posted by metsmax on 5/24/2013 9:32:00 PM (view original):
I doubt they have studied data.  There isnt much data to study.  There should be more firings.

The smart answer would be to give you a free season - not transferable to another world - to go with the firing.  That would encourage people to give it another.  Heck, I should have been fired at a couple of places.
Agreed with all of this, metsmax.

And though I voted yes, I would amend to say "BCS firings". I see no need to fire low/mid DI coaches.

Hasn't it been stated on too many occasions to count, that trying to resurrect a bottom dweller in a BCS conference is one of the hardest things to do in this game, given all the factors conspiring against that school?  So is it going to change next to, well, only BCS schools, but only those with an A or A+ baseline prestige because it's too damn hard to turn around those bottom of the barrel BCS schools and damnit, we need to cut those guys a break?  There's no need to distinguish between a BCS school and a low-level D1 school when it comes to firings.  If a coach isn't getting the job down at D1 Podunk U., he knew the potential consequences when he moved up to D1, so cut his *** loose.  If he can't win at Podunk U., he's not making it to a BCS school anyway, ever, so cut the cord and send him back down to D2.  If he wants to try D1 again, let him work his way back up the ladder just like the BCS coach is forced to do.  If you're going to do it, do it right and go all the way.  Half-assing things is one of the reasons that HD is in several of the jams they're in right now.  Should have done the right thing the first time, a long time ago.
i do kind of disagree with you though. i mean, i half agree, half disagree. i agree that low bcs schools are hard and it should be hard to get fried. i think all BCS jobs should have firings though, just not like today where it takes as much to get fired from an elite and a bcs bottom feeder - regardless of what state you picked them up in. i think the firing should mostly depend on the state of the school when you got them and how you did with them, combined with tougher standards for high baseline schools.

ideally, in general, id have firings only for mid majors who are above say b- baseline or picked up above say b- prestige in the first place. by ideally, i might also mean theoretically, if d1 wasnt so messed up. i definitely dont support firing a coach who picks up a d prestige mid major and in 10 seasons (or 100), is still at a D. let them learn. whats the harm? i dont subscribe to making things realistic just for the sake of it. in the goal of making things more fun for everybody, i can see how firing a dead beat coach at kentucky is a good idea. but i cant see how firing the new guy (assuming no ghost ship) at steven f austin because he takes too long pick things up, is more fun for anybody. 
5/27/2013 9:21 PM
can the customers please have the ability to fire the developers? I feel like WIS is represented by ghosts these days
5/27/2013 10:22 PM
Posted by emy1013 on 5/27/2013 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by girt25 on 5/25/2013 1:00:00 AM (view original):
Posted by metsmax on 5/24/2013 9:32:00 PM (view original):
I doubt they have studied data.  There isnt much data to study.  There should be more firings.

The smart answer would be to give you a free season - not transferable to another world - to go with the firing.  That would encourage people to give it another.  Heck, I should have been fired at a couple of places.
Agreed with all of this, metsmax.

And though I voted yes, I would amend to say "BCS firings". I see no need to fire low/mid DI coaches.

Hasn't it been stated on too many occasions to count, that trying to resurrect a bottom dweller in a BCS conference is one of the hardest things to do in this game, given all the factors conspiring against that school?  So is it going to change next to, well, only BCS schools, but only those with an A or A+ baseline prestige because it's too damn hard to turn around those bottom of the barrel BCS schools and damnit, we need to cut those guys a break?  There's no need to distinguish between a BCS school and a low-level D1 school when it comes to firings.  If a coach isn't getting the job down at D1 Podunk U., he knew the potential consequences when he moved up to D1, so cut his *** loose.  If he can't win at Podunk U., he's not making it to a BCS school anyway, ever, so cut the cord and send him back down to D2.  If he wants to try D1 again, let him work his way back up the ladder just like the BCS coach is forced to do.  If you're going to do it, do it right and go all the way.  Half-assing things is one of the reasons that HD is in several of the jams they're in right now.  Should have done the right thing the first time, a long time ago.
I semi agree with this.  Should firings be increased across the board?  Sure, I think so.  But Podunk U should be a lot harder to get fired from than say, Virginia.  Virginia has a lot of built in advantages being in the ACC (with all that free recruiting money whether VA accomplishes anything or not), so Virginia should be an easier place to get fired than the lower tier schools.  BCS schools should have to make the NT once in a while.  Lower tier schools should have to make the PT once in a while (say once every 3 seasons).  If you can't do those things, you don't deserve the level of school you're at (since either version is so incredibly easy).
5/28/2013 12:00 PM
IMO, at any school with baseline prestige that's the same as the rest of the conference, having a consistently winning record in conference should be plenty. If you're coaching Austin Peay, making the PT every three years is unrealistic expectations. Should there still be firings at Peay? If you've been there 10 seasons and have an overall conference record of 64-96, with a peak of 9-7 in your 6th season, then yeah, I'd say you can be fired. But if you're flitting between 8-8 and 12-4 every year, winning the regular season crown every once in a while, that's enough to keep your job, even if you never end up in the postseason. 

Whereas at Memphis, with a baseline prestige higher than anybody else in the conference, the standards should be higher. And at Virginia, with piles of recruiting money every year, they should be even higher than that. 

Again, I'm not a D1 player. I understand that my impressions from real life may not always match up to HD. But I think that, once you've factored in that turnarounds in HD D1 take longer than in real life D1, real life D1 provides a good first approximation for appropriate standards. 
5/28/2013 1:12 PM
I ran across this in the old release notes:

12/19/2011
Fixed an issue related to job status changes being too harsh. This will only affect worlds going forward from this point. Already affected worlds should correct after next season. Please contact customer support if you were fired and don't believe it was fair.


For those who have been around a long time, is this the point where firings essentially stopped happening?
5/28/2013 1:24 PM
Posted by coachvegas44 on 5/27/2013 2:51:00 PM (view original):
I think we are making this issue more complicated than it really is. EVERYBODY who signed up to play this games clearly knows the process of earning your way to D1 and understand you have to perform reasonably when you get there or be fired. Don't be concerned for the older players.From the veterans I have talked to everyone of them advanced knowing this is a competitive game and they would have to perform or drop down and start the climb again. They accepted this and HD did not lose them because the rules they agreed to were fairly applied. If they lost their D1 job, they could usually get any lower D1 job or top D2 job they wanted.

The real problem is not the potential loss of coaches. The real problem is that for whatever reason WIS/HD quit applying the rules that the players thought they would have to play by. I believe this is the reason that D1 is deteriorating. Good competitive coaches stay at D2 because they don't want to go to D1 and get their tails beat for years with no opportunity to advance. D1 is where being a good coach means the least. It's totally recruiting and scheduling and early entries.

The simple solution is go back to the original rules on firings and cleanup D1. I bet you you will retain far more than you lose. If you lose anyone at all,  alot of them will be coaches who quit playing the game along time ago.

The other area that should be changed is after the first half of hirings, reduce the requirements for the hire so decent programs are not destroyed by the Simmies. That process will be kept clean by applying the proper firings rules. This issue is addressed in another forum here.
+1

Jobs Fix
5/28/2013 1:47 PM
Posted by kcsundevil on 5/28/2013 1:12:00 PM (view original):
I ran across this in the old release notes:

12/19/2011
Fixed an issue related to job status changes being too harsh. This will only affect worlds going forward from this point. Already affected worlds should correct after next season. Please contact customer support if you were fired and don't believe it was fair.


For those who have been around a long time, is this the point where firings essentially stopped happening?
firings essentially never happened, although they may be even more rare now? 
5/28/2013 1:53 PM
Posted by tarvolon on 5/28/2013 12:00:00 PM (view original):
IMO, at any school with baseline prestige that's the same as the rest of the conference, having a consistently winning record in conference should be plenty. If you're coaching Austin Peay, making the PT every three years is unrealistic expectations. Should there still be firings at Peay? If you've been there 10 seasons and have an overall conference record of 64-96, with a peak of 9-7 in your 6th season, then yeah, I'd say you can be fired. But if you're flitting between 8-8 and 12-4 every year, winning the regular season crown every once in a while, that's enough to keep your job, even if you never end up in the postseason. 

Whereas at Memphis, with a baseline prestige higher than anybody else in the conference, the standards should be higher. And at Virginia, with piles of recruiting money every year, they should be even higher than that. 

Again, I'm not a D1 player. I understand that my impressions from real life may not always match up to HD. But I think that, once you've factored in that turnarounds in HD D1 take longer than in real life D1, real life D1 provides a good first approximation for appropriate standards. 
i sort of agree, sort of disagree with this.

i guess to me the point of firings it to open jobs for other guys. whats the point of firing a guy for having a 64-96 record with D prestige, when there are a ton of other D prestige jobs? i guess if d1 was full, i could see it. but with 200 openings in low d1, i cant see how firing a guy in that situation benefits someone else. if nobody gets a benefit from you firing someone, and its a negative for you firing that person, whats the point? 

i suppose if the requirements were low enough, i could support d1 firings across the board. that would basically ensure someone didnt get fired from a low end program in an empty conference (unless they were god awful), because of all the sim games, but if low d1 filled up, people would start to get fired from full low end conferences. 
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