HD Cheating Mantra Topic

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davis
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Dude played for Kentucky in college, then coached the Lakers (Magic/Kareem/Worthy) and the Heat (Shaq/Wade) in the NBA.  When was he ever facing a stacked deck?  Generally speaking, the deck was stacked in his favor.
7/19/2013 10:12 AM
bistiza
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Funny, Riley now has his own stacked deck with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh in Miami.
7/19/2013 10:23 AM
milwood
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Sure when you have players that aren't as good as your competition compete as fiercely as you can and maybe you'll pull off an upset.

However, when we are talking about cheating in HD recruiting, where there is a nominal amount of cash, his statement is completely irrelevant. People in here can only compete as far as there recruiting cash will let them.
7/19/2013 11:39 AM
tkimble
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The idea that there is widespread HD cheating, in my mind, is ridiculous.  Threads like this just purport the idea that it is there for the new guys who may turn down HD if they feel like there is cheating going on when there really isn't.  
7/19/2013 11:46 AM
stevejones16
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@Milwood: False. While recruiting cash is obviously an important element, it isn't even close to the only thing that determines success. There is far from perfect information in this game (meaning that there are market inefficiencies to exploit). And there are various ways you can expend cash, from the optimal to the way sub-optimal. The evidence is in the fact that there are plenty of dynasties built at mid-majors or in conferences with few humans (so less postseason cash). It's hard to win without a cash advantage, but definitely possible.
7/19/2013 12:57 PM
jetwildcat
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Posted by colonels19 on 7/18/2013 6:37:00 PM (view original):
Huffington Post Sports posted this on Facebook, and I found it completely pertinent to my feelings on "cheating" in HD, thus I thought I'd share since I'm not friends with any of you on FB...

'When you're playing against a stacked deck, compete even harder. Show the world how much you'll fight for the winners circle.' - Pat Riley, former NBA coach
you must think the sims are cheating, cuz you try really hard against them
7/19/2013 1:14 PM
jetwildcat
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Posted by stevejones16 on 7/19/2013 12:57:00 PM (view original):
@Milwood: False. While recruiting cash is obviously an important element, it isn't even close to the only thing that determines success. There is far from perfect information in this game (meaning that there are market inefficiencies to exploit). And there are various ways you can expend cash, from the optimal to the way sub-optimal. The evidence is in the fact that there are plenty of dynasties built at mid-majors or in conferences with few humans (so less postseason cash). It's hard to win without a cash advantage, but definitely possible.
+1
7/19/2013 1:14 PM
llamanunts
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milwood:
However, when we are talking about cheating in HD recruiting, where there is a nominal amount of cash, his statement is completely irrelevant. People in here can only compete as far as there recruiting cash will let them.
stevejones16:
@Milwood: False. While recruiting cash is obviously an important element, it isn't even close to the only thing that determines success. There is far from perfect information in this game (meaning that there are market inefficiencies to exploit). And there are various ways you can expend cash, from the optimal to the way sub-optimal. The evidence is in the fact that there are plenty of dynasties built at mid-majors or in conferences with few humans (so less postseason cash). It's hard to win without a cash advantage, but definitely possible.

You're taking milwood's statement in a vacuum, it seems, but it's a direct response to the original post.  The statement above, essentially, "compete harder", is not helpful in this context.  If a cheating coach uses his alias to drain your recruiting funds so his original username can win a battle against you, competing harder doesn't make any difference.  You're already recruiting as efficiently as you can, but your cheating adversary has rigged the auction in a way you can't really counter outside of "suddenly have more recruiting cash somehow".

7/19/2013 1:46 PM (edited)
milwood
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Hold on, there is an optimal way to recruit? I always just do three scouting trips, two home visits, a campus visit, and a scholarship offer. I'll have to look into this strategy thing you speak of
7/19/2013 1:56 PM
colonels19
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Posted by jetwildcat on 7/19/2013 1:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 7/18/2013 6:37:00 PM (view original):
Huffington Post Sports posted this on Facebook, and I found it completely pertinent to my feelings on "cheating" in HD, thus I thought I'd share since I'm not friends with any of you on FB...

'When you're playing against a stacked deck, compete even harder. Show the world how much you'll fight for the winners circle.' - Pat Riley, former NBA coach
you must think the sims are cheating, cuz you try really hard against them
Hello, troll.
7/20/2013 12:04 AM
jetwildcat
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Posted by llamanunts on 7/19/2013 1:46:00 PM (view original):
milwood:
However, when we are talking about cheating in HD recruiting, where there is a nominal amount of cash, his statement is completely irrelevant. People in here can only compete as far as there recruiting cash will let them.
stevejones16:
@Milwood: False. While recruiting cash is obviously an important element, it isn't even close to the only thing that determines success. There is far from perfect information in this game (meaning that there are market inefficiencies to exploit). And there are various ways you can expend cash, from the optimal to the way sub-optimal. The evidence is in the fact that there are plenty of dynasties built at mid-majors or in conferences with few humans (so less postseason cash). It's hard to win without a cash advantage, but definitely possible.

You're taking milwood's statement in a vacuum, it seems, but it's a direct response to the original post.  The statement above, essentially, "compete harder", is not helpful in this context.  If a cheating coach uses his alias to drain your recruiting funds so his original username can win a battle against you, competing harder doesn't make any difference.  You're already recruiting as efficiently as you can, but your cheating adversary has rigged the auction in a way you can't really counter outside of "suddenly have more recruiting cash somehow".

there are things you can do with your money (like bluffing, for example) that could potentially affect how your opponent plays the recruiting battle..."competing hard" would basically mean focusing really hard on coming up with clever and, eventually, the most effective ways to win the recruit.
7/20/2013 1:02 AM
llamanunts
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Obviously.  Let's assume you're already focusing really hard and recruiting as cleverly and effectively as you can.  You're not so silly that you'd be recruiting in an unfocused, dumb and ineffective way to start with, right?

So you're clevering all over Recruit A and Recruit B.  I decide I want Recruit A with Alias A.  I don't think I can win that battle straight up, though.  So I use Alias B to battle you for Recruit B and drain your cash.  Now, despite your cleverness, I have a lot better chance to get Recruit A with Alias A.

We know you should do your best to win.  Big 10-4 on that one.  The point that milwood and I are making is that you're gonna do your best and be your cleverest no matter what.  Someone using two teams against your one can have an advantage that's insurmountable no matter how many clever and effective moves you make.

Side note - I agree with tkimble above, about it not being widespread.  If you new guys are reading this, I'm not hollering about something that happens a lot.  I'm nitpicking a point of debate.
7/20/2013 11:53 AM
tbird9423
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The fact is, no one knows how often it happens.  We all say, "think" but I imagine that many of the top programs currently or have used that tactic in the past-- It doesn't even seem to be against the rules and the guys with multiple teams just aren't willing to get rid of that perception and have the game grow because, "they need that many teams to have fun and deserve to have them."  I think people can say, "I have two teams but never cheat," all they want but I still see that as a huge advantage even if it is in line with the rules. 
   Does anyone track total championships of those who only have one team in the world in which they won the championship?  It would be interesting to see the difference and I imagine it would be pretty telling. 

7/20/2013 1:43 PM
ike1024
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No, it wouldn't.
7/20/2013 3:19 PM
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