IMO, a Sim AI should never win the CotY if a human-coached team has finished #1 in either division. That said, I don't think 16-0 should guarantee a CotY. Think of it this way: what's more impressive, taking over a ****** 4-12 team, and going 11-5 with it, or going 16-0 with a team that's won 3 straight conference titles? To me, that's not a particularly close call, nor would it be in real life.

To you, it's not a close call.  To me, it's not either.  I'll stick with the guy who was perfect.  The guy who had no setbacks or trip ups.  You say it's not a particularly close call in real life either, so if you can find me more than say, six or eight times, where a coach who finished with a perfect conference record didn't win the CCOY, I'll concede on this point.

In real life, find me a coach coaching against sims haha

Lofl!

Posted by emy1013 on 9/16/2013 10:56:00 AM (view original):
To you, it's not a close call.  To me, it's not either.  I'll stick with the guy who was perfect.  The guy who had no setbacks or trip ups.  You say it's not a particularly close call in real life either, so if you can find me more than say, six or eight times, where a coach who finished with a perfect conference record didn't win the CCOY, I'll concede on this point.

Think of it this way: in real life, what would be more impressive, going undefeated in the Big 12 for KU, or somehow turning Texas Christian from the dumpster fire it was last season into a 12-6 team in the Big 12? I don't know very many people who wouldn't say that the TCU coach would deserve Big 12 CotY for that. Hell, I don't know many KANSAS fans that would argue with that.

Posted by emy1013 on 9/16/2013 10:56:00 AM (view original):
To you, it's not a close call.  To me, it's not either.  I'll stick with the guy who was perfect.  The guy who had no setbacks or trip ups.  You say it's not a particularly close call in real life either, so if you can find me more than say, six or eight times, where a coach who finished with a perfect conference record didn't win the CCOY, I'll concede on this point.

Think of it this way: in real life, what would be more impressive, going undefeated in the Big 12 for KU, or somehow turning Texas Christian from the dumpster fire it was last season into a 12-6 team in the Big 12? I don't know very many people who wouldn't say that the TCU coach would deserve Big 12 CotY for that. Hell, I don't know many KANSAS fans that would argue with that.

i agree with wildcat on this one. especially if TCU went... 17-1? not sure the current makeup there with respect to the conf schedule/# of games.

seems to me when a bottom dweller breaks .500 they often get it. especially when the top team has killer talent and a long time coach. bill self doesnt need a CCOY award, i feel like that factors into it, seems like coaches try to find any alternative NOT to give it to the already very-established very-successful coach or two of the conference. now, if self goes undefeated with a team expected to win an NT game or two but nothing more, thats a little different than if he goes undefeated with some of the teams hes had lately... but still, it seems the norm to me for the coach Ks, bill selfs, etc to only get the CCOY when nobody else has done something CCOY worthy.

That's interesting, I've always felt like expectations were not factored into the COY awards, both conference and nationally. I feel like the sim should develop and expectation for what a team should do, and at the end compare those expectations to results. If a team is expected to go 14-2 in conference and goes 15-1 that's not all that impressive, but if a team is expected to go 8-8 and goes 13-3 that's a bigger accomplishment. Of course this could get dicey because then you have a team expected to go 1-15 and goes 8-8, do you really give CCOY to a .500 team? 

Posted by kmasonbx1 on 9/17/2013 11:00:00 AM (view original):
That's interesting, I've always felt like expectations were not factored into the COY awards, both conference and nationally. I feel like the sim should develop and expectation for what a team should do, and at the end compare those expectations to results. If a team is expected to go 14-2 in conference and goes 15-1 that's not all that impressive, but if a team is expected to go 8-8 and goes 13-3 that's a bigger accomplishment. Of course this could get dicey because then you have a team expected to go 1-15 and goes 8-8, do you really give CCOY to a .500 team? 

Yeah I always thought the coach of the year is the coach who gets the most out of his talent. Makes it almost impossible for the best team's coach to win the award. Big improvement from year to year is probably the best indicator of overachieving, especially in your first year of being the coach.

jsajsa tells me I stole two NCOY titles from him in Crum in the last four years (the third one I earned), as in both cases he was #1 when the national awards came out, and I was only #2, but I won NCOY anyways. But in both cases, my team had started the season unranked. In the first case, I had finished the last season unranked. In the second case, I was defending a national title but had graduated three starters from the title team and was unranked in the preseason. 

So I definitely think there's an element of "did you overachieve" going into it. And not only based on improvement, but also based on what you're expected to do at the start of the season (which is a function of. . . whatever the rankings are a function of. overall rating, IQ, specific rating in key areas? I dunno). 

Posted by kmasonbx1 on 9/17/2013 11:00:00 AM (view original):
That's interesting, I've always felt like expectations were not factored into the COY awards, both conference and nationally. I feel like the sim should develop and expectation for what a team should do, and at the end compare those expectations to results. If a team is expected to go 14-2 in conference and goes 15-1 that's not all that impressive, but if a team is expected to go 8-8 and goes 13-3 that's a bigger accomplishment. Of course this could get dicey because then you have a team expected to go 1-15 and goes 8-8, do you really give CCOY to a .500 team? 

I think when we say significant improvement, we mean to say they improved their team from the 1 win dumpster fire into a team that nearly won the conference or at the very least became a threat to win it. That's pretty impressive. A team that is 8-8 after a 1 win season is nice, but there is still a lot of work to go and they are still likely not a real threat. If they are not a real threat to win the conference, then they should not be considered.

Look at what Miami did this year. Prior year was 20-13 record (9-7 conference; 6th in conference) and a 2nd round NIT. This year 29-7 (15-3 conf) and a sweet 16. Now in this case, they ended up better than Duke in conference, but I'd willing to bet if Duke finished a game ahead of Miami with only 2 conf loss, Larranaga might still win CCOY.

I think previous season record should have little or no even no impact. You could have gone 1-15 and brought back your entire team, so obviously there's going to be a ton of improvement. Or you could have gone 1-15 because you started 3 freshman and played them as many minutes as possible just to get maximum improvement out of them and then played a normal rotation the next season. There's lots of reasons the team could have done much better this season other then a great coaching job. 

This game is quirky.  Who ever really knows why it does what it does??  Like for instance, a couple of seasons ago, I had a player win the D1 National PLayer of the Year award, but he didn't get drafted.  Kinda weird, but oh well.