Andy's going to announce his retirement effective at the end of the season (again).  I'm noticing HOF chatter, which confuses me.  PEDs aside, can someone give me a valid argument on why he's deserving?

as an aside: I've always found it humorous how Andy always gets a pass on the whole steroid issue. 

He doesn't...and won't get it.

When it comes to PEDs, regardless of the flimsy excuse you throw up there, if you issue a statement in a timely manner, the issue is over.  When it comes to HOF voting, it's not that easy.  He won't get a pass.

Pettitte's a better candidate than Jack Morris. But Guys like Schilling and Mussina have much, much stronger HOF cases.

I think Schilling probably should be in.  Moose I'm torn on, but I'm leaning more towards 'yes' than I was when he retired.  

The arguments I'm reading for Pettitte center around longevity.  Which is nice, but even those numbers aren't HOF-worthy.  Has Andy ever been considered "one of the best in the game today?" I don't remember a time when that was the case.  That needs to be the case to get consideration.  

Also, he's a battler, pitches with more heart than anyone, is a great big-game pitcher.  Ugh.

No on every pitcher mentioned in the thread so far.

Posted by The Taint on 9/20/2013 12:59:00 PM (view original):
No on every pitcher mentioned in the thread so far.

How do you feel about Glavine?

While a bit of a compiler...I think he belongs.

5 20 win seasons
2 cy youngs
Top 20 in all time wins
Top 3(I think) in wins by a lefty


Pretty stellar career

83 WAR
123 ERA+
3.68 ERA
1.192 WHIP
2813 K
3562 IP

81 WAR
118 ERA+
3.54 ERA
1.314 WHIP
2600 K
4400 IP

One of these guys is Glavine and the other is Mussina.

It's the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of PRETTY GOOD. No WAY does Pettite even deserve a mention.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/20/2013 1:20:00 PM (view original):
83 WAR
123 ERA+
3.68 ERA
1.192 WHIP
2813 K
3562 IP

81 WAR
118 ERA+
3.54 ERA
1.314 WHIP
2600 K
4400 IP

One of these guys is Glavine and the other is Mussina.

A few things - 

1) While Glavine is a compiler, he also was a dominant pitcher for a decent amount of years.  Mussina was great, but was he ever dominant? Glavine was considered one of the best pitchers in baseball for several years, but did anyone really look at Mussina in that way?  5 All-Star Games for Moose, 10 for Glavine, and 2 Cy Youngs.

2) I know wins are largely meaningless, but 300 wins is a big deal.

3) Pitcher WAR is calculated mostly using FIP, right?  I'm passing on it as an important stat in this argument.

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/20/2013 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/20/2013 1:20:00 PM (view original):
83 WAR
123 ERA+
3.68 ERA
1.192 WHIP
2813 K
3562 IP

81 WAR
118 ERA+
3.54 ERA
1.314 WHIP
2600 K
4400 IP

One of these guys is Glavine and the other is Mussina.

A few things - 

1) While Glavine is a compiler, he also was a dominant pitcher for a decent amount of years.  Mussina was great, but was he ever dominant? Glavine was considered one of the best pitchers in baseball for several years, but did anyone really look at Mussina in that way?  5 All-Star Games for Moose, 10 for Glavine, and 2 Cy Youngs.

2) I know wins are largely meaningless, but 300 wins is a big deal.

3) Pitcher WAR is calculated mostly using FIP, right?  I'm passing on it as an important stat in this argument.

Pretty much exactly how I feel.