Bernie or Edgar? Topic

bad_luck
Posts: 21761 (0)
Hall of Famer
48 1 10
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2013 11:45:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2013 11:08:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2013 8:11:00 AM (view original):
For those who aren't interested in reading all this, here's another breakdown per 700 PA(roughly a full season):

Williams:  H 180, 35 2B, 4 3B, 22 HR, 83 BB
Martinez:   H 181, 41 2B, 1 3B, 24 HR, 104 BB

For those who've used "massive" and "significant" in relation to the offensive edge Martinez had, please feel free to point it out.     If you're having trouble, I'll help you.   It's something that happens when you don't swing the bat.

Just for reference.
More reference.
You can keep repeating that over and over again.

Good to know that you have completely committed to the idea that Williams was almost as good offensively as Martinez.

Unfortunately for you, that's not true.

Bernie Williams --- 9053 PA --- .297/.381/.477 --- 125 OPS+
Edgar Martinez   --- 8674 PA --- .312/.418/.515 --- 147 OPS+

Only you would insist that those two careers are similar.
12/4/2013 11:47 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
Posted by bad_luck on 12/4/2013 11:47:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2013 11:45:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2013 11:08:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2013 8:11:00 AM (view original):
For those who aren't interested in reading all this, here's another breakdown per 700 PA(roughly a full season):

Williams:  H 180, 35 2B, 4 3B, 22 HR, 83 BB
Martinez:   H 181, 41 2B, 1 3B, 24 HR, 104 BB

For those who've used "massive" and "significant" in relation to the offensive edge Martinez had, please feel free to point it out.     If you're having trouble, I'll help you.   It's something that happens when you don't swing the bat.

Just for reference.
More reference.
You can keep repeating that over and over again.

Good to know that you have completely committed to the idea that Williams was almost as good offensively as Martinez.

Unfortunately for you, that's not true.

Bernie Williams --- 9053 PA --- .297/.381/.477 --- 125 OPS+
Edgar Martinez   --- 8674 PA --- .312/.418/.515 --- 147 OPS+

Only you would insist that those two careers are similar.
And you can keep repeatly yourself over and over.   You'll still be just as wrong.

Are you still sticking with "Martinez has a MASSIVE edge at the plate"?   Because you haven't used MASSIVE in a long time. 
12/4/2013 11:50 AM
bad_luck
Posts: 21761 (0)
Hall of Famer
48 1 10
Prospect
Am I wrong?

22 points in career OPS+ over 9000 plate appearances is massive.

It's the difference between Mike Schmidt and Rick Monday.

It's the difference between being ranked 41st all time and being ranked 236th.

MASSIVE.
12/4/2013 11:54 AM
bad_luck
Posts: 21761 (0)
Hall of Famer
48 1 10
Prospect
It's the difference between Edgar Martinez and Bernie Williams.

Massive.
12/4/2013 11:54 AM
bad_luck
Posts: 21761 (0)
Hall of Famer
48 1 10
Prospect
Edgar Martinez's OPS+ is better than Arod's and Arod is still active.




12/4/2013 11:56 AM
tecwrg
Posts: 18995 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 153 32 129
Prospect
Please tell me more about how Bernie Williams and Rick Monday were comparable offensively.

Seriously, I NEED TO KNOW THIS!!!
12/4/2013 11:57 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
Yeah, you're wrong.   6 doubles, 2 homers and 21 walks(and three less triples) in the course of a season isn't MASSIVE at all.     Even pretending it is makes you dumb. 
12/4/2013 11:57 AM
burnsy483
Posts: 6848 (0)
Veteran
1 1 26
Prospect
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/4/2013 11:37:00 AM (view original):
I like percentage numbers.  You don't.  Martinez was a much more dangerous hitter than Bernie Williams.  When you look at Bonds in 2004 do you say "****, he only had 75 extra base hits.  Lots of guys did that.  What's the big fuss about?"
Yup. Adrian Beltre was as good a hitter as Barry Bonds was in 2004.
12/4/2013 11:57 AM
bad_luck
Posts: 21761 (0)
Hall of Famer
48 1 10
Prospect
An OPS+ 45% better than league average over 9000 plate appearances is rarified air.

12/4/2013 11:58 AM
bad_luck
Posts: 21761 (0)
Hall of Famer
48 1 10
Prospect
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/4/2013 11:57:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/4/2013 11:37:00 AM (view original):
I like percentage numbers.  You don't.  Martinez was a much more dangerous hitter than Bernie Williams.  When you look at Bonds in 2004 do you say "****, he only had 75 extra base hits.  Lots of guys did that.  What's the big fuss about?"
Yup. Adrian Beltre was as good a hitter as Barry Bonds was in 2004.
Fo sho.

Especially since a lot of Bond's walks were intentional.

You know you can get on first from an intentional walk? Me. It takes zero skill whatsoever. The catcher tells you what's coming and the pitcher doesn't even try to throw a strike.
12/4/2013 12:05 PM (edited)
burnsy483
Posts: 6848 (0)
Veteran
1 1 26
Prospect
Posted by tecwrg on 12/4/2013 11:57:00 AM (view original):
Please tell me more about how Bernie Williams and Rick Monday were comparable offensively.

Seriously, I NEED TO KNOW THIS!!!
To their eras and ballparks they were.  There were a similar amount of players who hit like Bernie did during his career and Rick Monday did during his career.
12/4/2013 12:05 PM
bad_luck
Posts: 21761 (0)
Hall of Famer
48 1 10
Prospect
Posted by tecwrg on 12/4/2013 11:57:00 AM (view original):
Please tell me more about how Bernie Williams and Rick Monday were comparable offensively.

Seriously, I NEED TO KNOW THIS!!!
You understand that runs were not as easy to come by in the 60's as they were in the 90's right?


12/4/2013 12:06 PM
tecwrg
Posts: 18995 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 153 32 129
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/4/2013 11:57:00 AM (view original):
Yeah, you're wrong.   6 doubles, 2 homers and 21 walks(and three less triples) in the course of a season isn't MASSIVE at all.     Even pretending it is makes you dumb. 
4 fewer singles.  Six more doubles.  3 fewer triples.  2 more homers.  21 more walks.

That's 31 aditional bases of offense produced.  Over a 26 week season.  1.19 bases of offense produced a week.

OMG!!!
12/4/2013 12:10 PM (edited)
tecwrg
Posts: 18995 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 153 32 129
Prospect
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/4/2013 12:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/4/2013 11:57:00 AM (view original):
Please tell me more about how Bernie Williams and Rick Monday were comparable offensively.

Seriously, I NEED TO KNOW THIS!!!
To their eras and ballparks they were.  There were a similar amount of players who hit like Bernie did during his career and Rick Monday did during his career.
Did you see Rick Monday play in the 70's?
12/4/2013 12:12 PM
burnsy483
Posts: 6848 (0)
Veteran
1 1 26
Prospect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBgGaGUnvA0
12/4/2013 12:12 PM
◂ Prev 1...7|8|9|10|11...29 Next ▸
Bernie or Edgar? Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.