Patriots Topic

Jtpsops
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So you're arguing Brees is a system QB, and yet Brady got injured and Cassell stepped in and led the team to 11 wins. Cassel has done jack **** since, so that tells me it was the system. Brady is a very good QB - is he as good outside of NE? We'll never know, but it's possible being with Belichick has made him even better.

Colts when Manning got hurt - 2-14. That, to me, suggests at lot of the success was a direct result of Manning.
1/21/2014 9:22 PM
slashtc
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/21/2014 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Tarkenton didn't play in this era either.   Nor did Marino.    

Anyway, almost 600 yards, 40  completions and 4 TD is a pretty good bit more.    Not much less than the difference between Brady/Manning in the same time period.
What?  2 less games for Brees on average makes up all those stats.  Manning on the other hand is way, way ahead of Brady.  25 more pass attempts netted him 700 yds and 8 TDs.  

I know you're not going to admit you're wrong, but you're wrong.  It happens to the best of them.
1/21/2014 9:52 PM (edited)
Jtpsops
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It's the classic MikeT formula. Argue a ridiculous point despite evidence to the contrary, then when it becomes too much, flip and say "HA! I was just trolling! Man, you guys are gullible."
1/21/2014 10:03 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by slashtc on 1/21/2014 9:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/21/2014 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Tarkenton didn't play in this era either.   Nor did Marino.    

Anyway, almost 600 yards, 40  completions and 4 TD is a pretty good bit more.    Not much less than the difference between Brady/Manning in the same time period.
What?  2 less games for Brees on average makes up all those stats.  Manning on the other hand is way, way ahead of Brady.  25 more pass attempts netted him 700 yds and 8 TDs.  

I know you're not going to admit you're wrong, but you're wrong.  It happens to the best of them.
Perhaps.   But you're acting like Manning, Rodgers and Brees are way up here.....




















and Brady is way down here.   That's not only wrong, it's stupid.     

I'd agree that Manning is a more talented QB than Brady.    Brees/Rodgers are not.   I've already explained why. 
1/22/2014 6:53 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/21/2014 9:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by slashtc on 1/20/2014 9:28:00 PM (view original):
They played in a bad division of a mediocre conference and got some breaks along the way.  

I'm not making the case that Brady stinks.  He's really, really good. HoF good.  Not all time best good though.  Maybe that's splitting hairs, but it drives me nuts when people claim he's the best ever...

Not really a Brady fan but let's look at what you're claiming. 

Brees-decidely mediocre in SD.   Blew up with Payton in NO.     Player or system?   I'd lean system.
Rodgers-sat the bench forever.  Won a Super Bowl and had a couple of good seasons.   Is he all that or is he living of 2+ seasons?
Manning is the only one of the 3 you mentioned that you can make a legit case as "obviously more talented".   And, like Marino, he is known to come up small in big games.

Let's look a couple of other "all-time greats".
Montana-What's his phenomenal skill set?   He's recognized as an ATG because he won Super Bowls.   His coach is recognized as one of the great offensive minds of all-time.  And he had this slug named Rice to throw to.
Young-horrible in TB and sat behind Montana.   Then became great under the coach and slug named Rice.
 

This.  In case you forgot.

1/22/2014 6:55 AM
MikeT23
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Also, I'll add that being on the field makes one a better QB option than a guy holding a clipboard or sitting on a training table.   If Brees can only make 14 games a year, that's his problem.    He averaged, over 7 seasons, almost 600 less yards(4200 yards) and 4 TD(28 TDs) less than Brady.   That's a pretty good season.

1/22/2014 7:34 AM
slashtc
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Mike, you're trying.  It's bad because you're wrong, but you're trying.  Brees started 4 seasons in SD.  4 not 7.  He missed 5 of his 7 career games in one of those SD seasons.  He's missed less career games than Brady.  And I didn't forget your post.  You said Brees was "decidedly mediocre" in SD, and I proved that he was as mediocre as Tom Brady was without Moss.  So if Brees was decidedly mediocre in SD as you say, Brady was decidedly mediocre without Moss.  

All that means is Brady is really, really good.  HoF good.  I've said this many, many times.  He's not the best QB ever.  Period.  That's all I'm saying.  Nowhere did I say Brady sucks or is just average, or even decidedly mediocre as you called Brees (other than above where I used your statement to prove a point).

Rodgers has "a couple good seasons" - you're right.  Well, you're close...he has a couple elite seasons and several other really good ones, which is as many elite seasons as Tom Brady had in many, many more years as a starter.  I'm willing to guess he has at least one more in him to put him ahead of Brady.  It's not his fault he got drafted behind Favre.  Go look at Rodgers' stats again.  Only 2 out of 6 seasons (5 full) as a starter with more than 10 interceptions.  Never more than 13.  The single digit INT years you ask?  30 TD, 7 INT, 45 and 6, 39 and 8, and 17 and 6 (injured this year).  Brady has 3 single digit INT seasons in his career.  Brady has 4 seasons of 30+ TD; Rodgers has 3 and is a safe bet to get one at some point if he stays healthy.

Again, none of this means Brady sucks or isn't a HoF QB, but the facts are the facts.  Stats don't tell the whole story, but nobody ever looks at the stats when it comes to Brady because he's a "winner" because he happened to be on really good teams.
1/22/2014 8:05 AM (edited)
MikeT23
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So Brees couldn't even get on the field?  He wasn't the best QB on his team?   Well, that's a convincing argument.

I've not claimed Brady was the best ever.    You said, in your first post, that Brady is "nowhere as good" as Rodgers and Brees.    That is incorrect.  Horribly incorrect.    You can ramble off your fantasy football stats all you want but it's not true.    Manning is better.  Agreed.   But don't act like Brady would sit behind Brees/Rodgers on the team bus.   That's wrong. 

And I'm ****** that you're making me defend Brady.   I don't care for him. 
1/22/2014 8:44 AM
slashtc
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/22/2014 8:44:00 AM (view original):
So Brees couldn't even get on the field?  He wasn't the best QB on his team?   Well, that's a convincing argument.

I've not claimed Brady was the best ever.    You said, in your first post, that Brady is "nowhere as good" as Rodgers and Brees.    That is incorrect.  Horribly incorrect.    You can ramble off your fantasy football stats all you want but it's not true.    Manning is better.  Agreed.   But don't act like Brady would sit behind Brees/Rodgers on the team bus.   That's wrong. 

And I'm ****** that you're making me defend Brady.   I don't care for him. 
Damn, you're stubborn and dumb.  Brees played 5 years in SD.  Sat as a rookie (as did Brady mind you).  What else you got?

Stats prove I'm right.  You can have the wrong opinion all you want, I don't really care.  Stats back me up 100%.  Game over.  My logic isn't "but it feels like Brady is as good as them" like yours is.  Mine is the facts say he's not.  And they do.  Enjoy being wrong...I know I'm enjoying being one of the few to prove you wrong to the point you have no defense other than "I don't agree" - I'll take that.
1/22/2014 8:53 AM
MikeT23
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So you're sticking with "Brady is nowhere near as good as Rodgers and Brees"?

Good luck finding anyone but Patriot/Brady haters, or the incredibly stupid, who agree with you.
1/22/2014 8:56 AM
MikeT23
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58 games as a starter(pro-rated to 16 games) for Brees in SD

62.3%
3345 yds
21.5 TD
14.6 INT

What about that screams "ELITE QB!!!!"?
1/22/2014 9:03 AM
slashtc
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Nothing. That's my point. That's Brady for his first 7 years. Thank you.
1/22/2014 10:00 AM
slashtc
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/22/2014 8:56:00 AM (view original):
So you're sticking with "Brady is nowhere near as good as Rodgers and Brees"?

Good luck finding anyone but Patriot/Brady haters, or the incredibly stupid, who agree with you.
The incredibly dumb are the people like you going with perception instead of reality.
1/22/2014 10:03 AM
MikeT23
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Find them for me.   Find someone, anyone, who'll say "Oh, yeah, Rodgers and Brees are way better than Brady."     Then ask them their favorite team.

It's just stupid to say that.  Stupid.
1/22/2014 10:28 AM
tecwrg
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Can we all agree that Rodgers, Brees and Brady are all very successful QB's within their team's systems?
1/22/2014 10:37 AM
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