Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 1/9/2014 12:32:00 PM (view original):
I thought that statistics can tell you everything you need to know about baseball?  Especially the new and improved advanced stats?

Yet you seem to be going back to what burnsey was criticizing me about yesterday when I was dissing Kenny Lofton.  Your only reason for saying one guy is HOF worthy and another isn't is "Because it's Joey Schlobotnik!".

Right now, I'm not saying anyone is or isn't anything. Mike spit out two random, similar oWAR numbers. He also says that I said one guy is a hall of famer and the other isn't.

OK. If that's what I said, fine. But I have no idea who they are.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:16:00 PM (view original):
"By refusing to acknowledge that there's virtually no difference between the two yet having stated that one is a no doubt HOFer and the other shouldn't get a vote, you're proving my point."

Nobody disagrees with your point that simply looking at career oWAR is a poor way to determine HOF candidacy. 

Would you agree that a 30% difference in WAR is insignificant, badluckjr?

Depends. A WAR difference of 1.2 and 1.6 in one season is pretty insignificant.  A career WAR difference of 50 and 65 is much more significant.

So a player who is insignificantly better for 15-20 seasons can somehow become significantly better at the end of his career?    Are you going to break it down to a week again to prove your point?

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:16:00 PM (view original):
"By refusing to acknowledge that there's virtually no difference between the two yet having stated that one is a no doubt HOFer and the other shouldn't get a vote, you're proving my point."

Nobody disagrees with your point that simply looking at career oWAR is a poor way to determine HOF candidacy. 

Would you agree that a 30% difference in WAR is insignificant, badluckjr?

Depends. A WAR difference of 1.2 and 1.6 in one season is pretty insignificant.  A career WAR difference of 50 and 65 is much more significant.

So a player who is insignificantly better for 15-20 seasons can somehow become significantly better at the end of his career?    Are you going to break it down to a week again to prove your point?

Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 12:51:00 PM (view original):
mikey, are you ever going to reveal your mystery players?

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 12:51:00 PM (view original):
mikey, are you ever going to reveal your mystery players?

It doesn't matter, they've been argued over and over and over.  We used more than oWAR when discussing them.

Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 12:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:16:00 PM (view original):
"By refusing to acknowledge that there's virtually no difference between the two yet having stated that one is a no doubt HOFer and the other shouldn't get a vote, you're proving my point."

Nobody disagrees with your point that simply looking at career oWAR is a poor way to determine HOF candidacy. 

Would you agree that a 30% difference in WAR is insignificant, badluckjr?

Depends. A WAR difference of 1.2 and 1.6 in one season is pretty insignificant.  A career WAR difference of 50 and 65 is much more significant.

So a player who is insignificantly better for 15-20 seasons can somehow become significantly better at the end of his career?    Are you going to break it down to a week again to prove your point?

If he's more than a win better every year for 20 years, then yes, that rather insignificant one year number is significant when stretched over an entire career.

Like if I hit 4 or 5 more home runs than you every year for 20 years.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 1:04:00 PM (view original):
I'm just not jumping thru your hoops because you know who they are.  Or you're simply stupid because everyone else who has been involved in said discussions knew at a glance. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 1:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 12:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:16:00 PM (view original):
"By refusing to acknowledge that there's virtually no difference between the two yet having stated that one is a no doubt HOFer and the other shouldn't get a vote, you're proving my point."

Nobody disagrees with your point that simply looking at career oWAR is a poor way to determine HOF candidacy. 

Would you agree that a 30% difference in WAR is insignificant, badluckjr?

Depends. A WAR difference of 1.2 and 1.6 in one season is pretty insignificant.  A career WAR difference of 50 and 65 is much more significant.

So a player who is insignificantly better for 15-20 seasons can somehow become significantly better at the end of his career?    Are you going to break it down to a week again to prove your point?

If he's more than a win better every year for 20 years, then yes, that rather insignificant one year number is significant when stretched over an entire career.

Like if I hit 4 or 5 more home runs than you every year for 20 years.

He's less than a win better if it's 15 WAR over 20 seasons.    Simple math.

All other things being equal, is a player with 25 homers .75 WAR better than a player with 20 homers?

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:16:00 PM (view original):
"By refusing to acknowledge that there's virtually no difference between the two yet having stated that one is a no doubt HOFer and the other shouldn't get a vote, you're proving my point."

Nobody disagrees with your point that simply looking at career oWAR is a poor way to determine HOF candidacy. 

Would you agree that a 30% difference in WAR is insignificant, badluckjr?

Depends. A WAR difference of 1.2 and 1.6 in one season is pretty insignificant.  A career WAR difference of 50 and 65 is much more significant.

So a player who is insignificantly better for 15-20 seasons can somehow become significantly better at the end of his career?    Are you going to break it down to a week again to prove your point?

If you want me to.  I think it was a good argument.

You also understand what when you use tiny numbers, like 1, that 30% more than that really doesn't change much, right?  A WAR that's 30% higher in one year may not be too significant.  That said, take a year's WAR of 10.4, and compare it to one of 8, and you could argue that's a significant jump. A difference in WAR of 2.4 is a lot more than one of 0.4.  

It isn't.   Break down by game, by inning, by pitch.    The smaller the window, the bigger the difference.   As I asked earlier, I think pretty much everyone know a .333 hitter is better than a .286 hitter over the course of a season. 

$10 to $7 an hour is pretty significant, right?   $10 an hour seems like a small number to me.   Would you notice 30% of your salary being slashed.    20 homers to 14 homers is pretty significant don't you think?   The only 30% that doesn't seem to matter is WAR. 

Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 1:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 1:04:00 PM (view original):
I'm just not jumping thru your hoops because you know who they are.  Or you're simply stupid because everyone else who has been involved in said discussions knew at a glance. 

Dude, they're your hoops, not mine. But if you don't want to reveal them, that's your deal. I don't care.

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 1:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 12:16:00 PM (view original):
"By refusing to acknowledge that there's virtually no difference between the two yet having stated that one is a no doubt HOFer and the other shouldn't get a vote, you're proving my point."

Nobody disagrees with your point that simply looking at career oWAR is a poor way to determine HOF candidacy. 

Would you agree that a 30% difference in WAR is insignificant, badluckjr?

Depends. A WAR difference of 1.2 and 1.6 in one season is pretty insignificant.  A career WAR difference of 50 and 65 is much more significant.

So a player who is insignificantly better for 15-20 seasons can somehow become significantly better at the end of his career?    Are you going to break it down to a week again to prove your point?

If you want me to.  I think it was a good argument.

You also understand what when you use tiny numbers, like 1, that 30% more than that really doesn't change much, right?  A WAR that's 30% higher in one year may not be too significant.  That said, take a year's WAR of 10.4, and compare it to one of 8, and you could argue that's a significant jump. A difference in WAR of 2.4 is a lot more than one of 0.4.  

It isn't.   Break down by game, by inning, by pitch.    The smaller the window, the bigger the difference.   As I asked earlier, I think pretty much everyone know a .333 hitter is better than a .286 hitter over the course of a season. 

$10 to $7 an hour is pretty significant, right?   $10 an hour seems like a small number to me.   Would you notice 30% of your salary being slashed.    20 homers to 14 homers is pretty significant don't you think?   The only 30% that doesn't seem to matter is WAR. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 1:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 1:04:00 PM (view original):
I'm just not jumping thru your hoops because you know who they are.  Or you're simply stupid because everyone else who has been involved in said discussions knew at a glance. 

Dude, they're your hoops, not mine. But if you don't want to reveal them, that's your deal. I don't care.

If you don't care, prove it.   STFU.  

On the other hand, everyone knows you know who they are.    Don't play extra stupid today.