2015 baseball HOF ballot. Topic

burnsy483
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Dan Wilson was a career .327 hitter with the bases loaded.  **** yea!
2/7/2014 1:41 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:38:00 PM (view original):
If Edgar Martinez batted 3rd for his entire career, is his baseball career somehow more HOF worthy to you?
You're gonna love this but yes.   I still don't think he's HOF material because he was passing the buck to BETTER hitters, who also played the field, but he wasn't walking so Dan Wilson could get some swings.

Even though Rickey was probably the best hitter on his team most seasons, I don't gripe about his walks.   He was hitting first and stealing bases.  And you've have to think the 2/3/4/5 hitters were not Dan Wilson.
2/7/2014 1:43 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:41:00 PM (view original):
Dan Wilson was a career .327 hitter with the bases loaded.  **** yea!
HOF for Dan?
2/7/2014 1:44 PM
burnsy483
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You're taking a very specific scenario and assuming that Martinez acted a certain way, without any proof.  It's a faulty argument.  
2/7/2014 1:44 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 1:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 1:33:00 PM (view original):
What you want is the best chance to win the game. Martinez getting on base increases your chances.
Because Dan Wilson was such a good hitter?

I think you're being intentionally dumb.   You could argue "How many times did that situation present itself?" and I'd have no answer.   But to pretend you want Martinez to walk so Dan Wilson, Russ Wilson, Joey Cora or Jay Buhner can swing is dumb.
You're completely ignoring the fact that a walk isn't usually an alternative to a hit. Guys that bat over .300 and slug over .500 deliver when they swing the bat. When they take a walk it was because the pitcher didn't give them anything to hit. I would want Martinez to take a walk if he didn't get anything good to hit because the alternative is probably him swinging at a bad pitch and making an out.


2/7/2014 1:46 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:44:00 PM (view original):
You're taking a very specific scenario and assuming that Martinez acted a certain way, without any proof.  It's a faulty argument.  

I'm assuming he took a lot of pitches.   Perhaps there's a stat site out there that will tell you how many strikes he took looking.   I don't know that there is and I'm certainly not going to look for it.   But I think we know he took a lot of pitches.   And I'm assuming some of them were strikes.  

2/7/2014 1:48 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 1:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:38:00 PM (view original):
If Edgar Martinez batted 3rd for his entire career, is his baseball career somehow more HOF worthy to you?
You're gonna love this but yes.   I still don't think he's HOF material because he was passing the buck to BETTER hitters, who also played the field, but he wasn't walking so Dan Wilson could get some swings.

Even though Rickey was probably the best hitter on his team most seasons, I don't gripe about his walks.   He was hitting first and stealing bases.  And you've have to think the 2/3/4/5 hitters were not Dan Wilson.
I think the other issue is that you're looking at EM and saying "He was the 3rd best hitter on his team, and he didn't play the field! How is he HOF worthy?!?" The other 2 players are more worthy, yes.  

I get what you're saying.  But I don't think EM was looking to walk.  And when EM swung the bat, he did damage.  And the 10% of the time he walked, it certainly wasn't a bad thing.
2/7/2014 1:49 PM
MikeT23
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A walk is better than an out.  Understood.

Now, I'll ask again.    If someone has to put the ball in play in order to drive in the run, who do you pick?
Votes: 4
(Last vote received: 2/19/2014 8:54 PM)
2/7/2014 1:50 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 1:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:38:00 PM (view original):
If Edgar Martinez batted 3rd for his entire career, is his baseball career somehow more HOF worthy to you?
You're gonna love this but yes.   I still don't think he's HOF material because he was passing the buck to BETTER hitters, who also played the field, but he wasn't walking so Dan Wilson could get some swings.

Even though Rickey was probably the best hitter on his team most seasons, I don't gripe about his walks.   He was hitting first and stealing bases.  And you've have to think the 2/3/4/5 hitters were not Dan Wilson.
I think the other issue is that you're looking at EM and saying "He was the 3rd best hitter on his team, and he didn't play the field! How is he HOF worthy?!?" The other 2 players are more worthy, yes.  

I get what you're saying.  But I don't think EM was looking to walk.  And when EM swung the bat, he did damage.  And the 10% of the time he walked, it certainly wasn't a bad thing.
He struck out once every 6 AB.  I'm not sure he always did damage when he swung.

I think he was a selective hitter.   I think he could have helped his team more by being a little less selective and taking the bat out of Dan Wilson's hands.
2/7/2014 1:52 PM
burnsy483
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Where's the "I like cheese" option? Not voting.

The obvious question is "Does Martinez have a great pitch to hit?"  Which you don't know.

The Mariners are more likely to win the game when EM walks to load the bases for the next guy up than he if gets out.  When he swings at the 1-0 heavy sinker on the 50-50 pitch on or near the outside corner of the plate, it's not likely to be a hit.  You're grasping at straws, assuming you know what his atbats were like in these very specific situations.  And arguing that these very specific situations are a main reason on why he's not HOF material.
2/7/2014 1:55 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 1:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 1:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:38:00 PM (view original):
If Edgar Martinez batted 3rd for his entire career, is his baseball career somehow more HOF worthy to you?
You're gonna love this but yes.   I still don't think he's HOF material because he was passing the buck to BETTER hitters, who also played the field, but he wasn't walking so Dan Wilson could get some swings.

Even though Rickey was probably the best hitter on his team most seasons, I don't gripe about his walks.   He was hitting first and stealing bases.  And you've have to think the 2/3/4/5 hitters were not Dan Wilson.
I think the other issue is that you're looking at EM and saying "He was the 3rd best hitter on his team, and he didn't play the field! How is he HOF worthy?!?" The other 2 players are more worthy, yes.  

I get what you're saying.  But I don't think EM was looking to walk.  And when EM swung the bat, he did damage.  And the 10% of the time he walked, it certainly wasn't a bad thing.
He struck out once every 6 AB.  I'm not sure he always did damage when he swung.

I think he was a selective hitter.   I think he could have helped his team more by being a little less selective and taking the bat out of Dan Wilson's hands.
No batter does damage every time he swings.  His rate stats show he does significantly more damage that the vast majority of players.
2/7/2014 1:58 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 1:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:44:00 PM (view original):
You're taking a very specific scenario and assuming that Martinez acted a certain way, without any proof.  It's a faulty argument.  

I'm assuming he took a lot of pitches.   Perhaps there's a stat site out there that will tell you how many strikes he took looking.   I don't know that there is and I'm certainly not going to look for it.   But I think we know he took a lot of pitches.   And I'm assuming some of them were strikes.  

Comment?
2/7/2014 1:58 PM
burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 1:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:44:00 PM (view original):
You're taking a very specific scenario and assuming that Martinez acted a certain way, without any proof.  It's a faulty argument.  

I'm assuming he took a lot of pitches.   Perhaps there's a stat site out there that will tell you how many strikes he took looking.   I don't know that there is and I'm certainly not going to look for it.   But I think we know he took a lot of pitches.   And I'm assuming some of them were strikes.  

Comment?
I'm assuming he swung at less balls than most.  But that's all we're doing.  Assuming.
2/7/2014 1:59 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Where's the "I like cheese" option? Not voting.

The obvious question is "Does Martinez have a great pitch to hit?"  Which you don't know.

The Mariners are more likely to win the game when EM walks to load the bases for the next guy up than he if gets out.  When he swings at the 1-0 heavy sinker on the 50-50 pitch on or near the outside corner of the plate, it's not likely to be a hit.  You're grasping at straws, assuming you know what his atbats were like in these very specific situations.  And arguing that these very specific situations are a main reason on why he's not HOF material.
"I like cheese" is tec's thing.  I'm not a plagarist.

I don't even know if the situations existed.   I'm just saying I'd prefer to have Martinez swinging, because "he does damage when he swings" in your words, than Dan Wilson, Russ Davis or anyone not named Griffey or A-Rod.
2/7/2014 2:00 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 1:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 1:44:00 PM (view original):
You're taking a very specific scenario and assuming that Martinez acted a certain way, without any proof.  It's a faulty argument.  

I'm assuming he took a lot of pitches.   Perhaps there's a stat site out there that will tell you how many strikes he took looking.   I don't know that there is and I'm certainly not going to look for it.   But I think we know he took a lot of pitches.   And I'm assuming some of them were strikes.  

Comment?
I'm assuming he swung at less balls than most.  But that's all we're doing.  Assuming.
And took some strikes?
2/7/2014 2:01 PM
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