2015 baseball HOF ballot. Topic

tecwrg
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Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 5:09:00 PM (view original):
It was an incomplete explanation.

2 runners on and Jay Buhner up is more advantageous than 1 runner on and Edgar Martinez up.

Do you disagree?

Except that wasn't the situation I posted, is it?

"If the expected runs for a given state (outs and men on base) is .324 runs, does it matter if Edgar Martinez or Mario Mendoza is batting?"

So it's the same state (outs and men on base) for two different batters.  Not one state for EM, and a different state for MM.

And you answered "I don't think it makes a difference.  Blah blah blah."

Thus proving you're utterly retarded.

 

2/12/2014 5:31 PM
MikeT23
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I think most of us understand stats, probabilities and the like.

But baseball isn't played by rolling 8-sided die.   It's on the field and played by individuals.    It's kind of dumb to say there's very little difference between a Martinez and a Mendoza.  

Do you understand why?
2/12/2014 5:31 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 2/12/2014 5:31:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 5:09:00 PM (view original):
It was an incomplete explanation.

2 runners on and Jay Buhner up is more advantageous than 1 runner on and Edgar Martinez up.

Do you disagree?

Except that wasn't the situation I posted, is it?

"If the expected runs for a given state (outs and men on base) is .324 runs, does it matter if Edgar Martinez or Mario Mendoza is batting?"

So it's the same state (outs and men on base) for two different batters.  Not one state for EM, and a different state for MM.

And you answered "I don't think it makes a difference.  Blah blah blah."

Thus proving you're utterly retarded.

 

I was wrong about that, I answered without thinking through what you were actually asking. I can admit that.

Given the same base/out state, obviously you're better off with a better hitter. Otherwise a lineup full of 260/330/390 hitters would score as much as a lineup full of 260/360/390 hitters, and we know they wouldn't.

But that's irrelevant to the topic of Martinez and his walks. Because the value of his (and everyone's) walks come from adding runners and avoiding outs, changing the out/runner state.
2/12/2014 5:35 PM
MikeT23
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Anyway, I wrote this earlier but didn't hit submit because I had some time to kill.

There are situations, in most games, where I like to see the better players take matters into their own hands.   That is not walking.   I respect plate discipline, batting eye, patience and whatever else is required to lay off a pitch that you think you can hit but would prefer to take a chance on getting a better one.   However, when I have a .300 hitter at the plate and a .240 guy on deck, I want the guy to give a little on what he'll hack at.

I made some assumptions, in part because I find it funny that some of you will defend EM harder than you'd defend your 13 y/o sister's virginity, based on walk/K rates and the limited number of times I saw EM bat.   He struck me as a guy who wouldn't budge from "his" strike zone regardless of the circumstances.   He's not the only guy who's ever done it(I'm looking at you Frank Thomas) but it does annoy me.    Based on who hit behind him most of his career, it seems that SEA would have been better served if he swung a bit more.   Maybe he fails every time.  Maybe he doesn't.   Hell, the 100ish AB or so that I saw may have been abnormal and maybe he did.

But that's been the point.   Better players need to win games sometimes while the other guys play the odds.  Well, that and it amuses me to stir the EM for HOF guys up.  The game isn't always played on a stat sheet. 
2/12/2014 5:42 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 5:42:00 PM (view original):
Anyway, I wrote this earlier but didn't hit submit because I had some time to kill.

There are situations, in most games, where I like to see the better players take matters into their own hands.   That is not walking.   I respect plate discipline, batting eye, patience and whatever else is required to lay off a pitch that you think you can hit but would prefer to take a chance on getting a better one.   However, when I have a .300 hitter at the plate and a .240 guy on deck, I want the guy to give a little on what he'll hack at.

I made some assumptions, in part because I find it funny that some of you will defend EM harder than you'd defend your 13 y/o sister's virginity, based on walk/K rates and the limited number of times I saw EM bat.   He struck me as a guy who wouldn't budge from "his" strike zone regardless of the circumstances.   He's not the only guy who's ever done it(I'm looking at you Frank Thomas) but it does annoy me.    Based on who hit behind him most of his career, it seems that SEA would have been better served if he swung a bit more.   Maybe he fails every time.  Maybe he doesn't.   Hell, the 100ish AB or so that I saw may have been abnormal and maybe he did.

But that's been the point.   Better players need to win games sometimes while the other guys play the odds.  Well, that and it amuses me to stir the EM for HOF guys up.  The game isn't always played on a stat sheet. 
Double down, huh?

You're saying the same thing you've been saying for 50 pages. There is nothing new or compelling in those three-ish paragraphs.
2/12/2014 5:47 PM
bad_luck
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And I think Martinez is only slightly better than a borderline candidate for the hall. I think the lack of significant defensive value and a slight power shortage hurt him. But he is one of the best 30 or 40 hitters of all time, so I'd put him in.
2/12/2014 5:48 PM
MikeT23
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You know who never gets a hit?  The guy that doesn't swing. 

2/12/2014 5:56 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 5:56:00 PM (view original):

You know who never gets a hit?  The guy that doesn't swing. 

Really? You're kidding? I NEVER knew that.

Are you saying Martinez never got a hit?
2/12/2014 5:59 PM
MikeT23
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Would you like to quote the post where I said that?    Should I wait here or would you just prefer to admit that you're making **** up again?

2/12/2014 6:00 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 6:00:00 PM (view original):

Would you like to quote the post where I said that?    Should I wait here or would you just prefer to admit that you're making **** up again?

Um, that's why I asked.
2/12/2014 6:03 PM
bad_luck
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Are you saying Martinez never got a hit?

Otherwise, what's your point?
2/12/2014 6:03 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 6:00:00 PM (view original):

Would you like to quote the post where I said that?    Should I wait here or would you just prefer to admit that you're making **** up again?

Did you miss this when you asked the type of dumb question that I've already told you I wouldn't answer because it amuses me when you repeat them?
2/12/2014 6:09 PM
bad_luck
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Oh, ok. Your post was pointless. Got it.
2/12/2014 6:10 PM
rsp777
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Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 5:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 5:42:00 PM (view original):
Anyway, I wrote this earlier but didn't hit submit because I had some time to kill.

There are situations, in most games, where I like to see the better players take matters into their own hands.   That is not walking.   I respect plate discipline, batting eye, patience and whatever else is required to lay off a pitch that you think you can hit but would prefer to take a chance on getting a better one.   However, when I have a .300 hitter at the plate and a .240 guy on deck, I want the guy to give a little on what he'll hack at.

I made some assumptions, in part because I find it funny that some of you will defend EM harder than you'd defend your 13 y/o sister's virginity, based on walk/K rates and the limited number of times I saw EM bat.   He struck me as a guy who wouldn't budge from "his" strike zone regardless of the circumstances.   He's not the only guy who's ever done it(I'm looking at you Frank Thomas) but it does annoy me.    Based on who hit behind him most of his career, it seems that SEA would have been better served if he swung a bit more.   Maybe he fails every time.  Maybe he doesn't.   Hell, the 100ish AB or so that I saw may have been abnormal and maybe he did.

But that's been the point.   Better players need to win games sometimes while the other guys play the odds.  Well, that and it amuses me to stir the EM for HOF guys up.  The game isn't always played on a stat sheet. 
Double down, huh?

You're saying the same thing you've been saying for 50 pages. There is nothing new or compelling in those three-ish paragraphs.
Agreed. Mike is STILL RIGHT!!!
2/13/2014 8:30 AM
tecwrg
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"GIVE ME THE DAMN BALL!!!" or "walk me, please".

Which of those do you want on your team with the game on the line?

2/13/2014 8:44 AM
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