Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 6:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 6:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 5:47:00 PM (view original):
Somebody's going to have to help me out here, because I'm just not getting something.

If I have one of the best hitter's on my team, a guy who I think is on his way to a HOF-worthy career based entirely on his hitting abilities, coming up to the plate late in the game with the game on the line, why would I be thinking "gee, I hope he walks, because that will really improve our chances of winning this game with our .265 hitter on deck"?

Maybe it's just me, but I want him to be aggressive, trying to put the ball in play.

No one is hoping he walks in that situation. I'm only saying that his ability to walk was not a bad thing. Mike thinks it was.

It's ridiculous that it has come to this. Martinez came up to bat in the ninth with two outs, a runner on third (and first or second) and his team down by a run or tied and walked all of 3 times. Over his entire career. I think we can put it the issue to rest.

Maybe taking the bat off his shoulder and lining a double into the gap would have been a better thing.

Just maybe.

Yes, he should have swung at balls out of the strike zone.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 6:18:00 PM (view original):
You've avoided the question long enough.

2 outs, runner on 3rd and you need a run.    Do you want the .320 hitter swinging or the .227 hitter?

Everyone wants the .320 hitter up to bat. But if he walks, I'm ok with that and here's why:

If the guy has a .320 average when he's being selective, his average will probably go down when he stops being selective and tries to avoid a walk. But even if we're generous and assume that his hit rate will stay at 32% when he isn't being selective, he's still going to make an out 68% of the time. That means if he goes up to bat trying not to walk, the game is already over just about 70% of the time. An out is the only bad outcome in this situation and Edgar Martinez was exceptionally good at avoiding outs.


Now answer my question, which hitter would you prefer overall:

A) .320/.360/.520
B) .320/.420/.520

He's been saying A because he gets more hits over the course of a season.

Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 6:40:00 PM (view original):
He's been saying A because he gets more hits over the course of a season.

I honestly never saw his answer but that's ******* retarded.

Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 6:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 6:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 5:47:00 PM (view original):
Somebody's going to have to help me out here, because I'm just not getting something.

If I have one of the best hitter's on my team, a guy who I think is on his way to a HOF-worthy career based entirely on his hitting abilities, coming up to the plate late in the game with the game on the line, why would I be thinking "gee, I hope he walks, because that will really improve our chances of winning this game with our .265 hitter on deck"?

Maybe it's just me, but I want him to be aggressive, trying to put the ball in play.

No one is hoping he walks in that situation. I'm only saying that his ability to walk was not a bad thing. Mike thinks it was.

It's ridiculous that it has come to this. Martinez came up to bat in the ninth with two outs, a runner on third (and first or second) and his team down by a run or tied and walked all of 3 times. Over his entire career. I think we can put it the issue to rest.

Maybe taking the bat off his shoulder and lining a double into the gap would have been a better thing.

Just maybe.

He was intentionally walked 2 out of those 3 times. Taking the bat off his shoulder wasn't an option.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 6:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 6:40:00 PM (view original):
He's been saying A because he gets more hits over the course of a season.

I honestly never saw his answer but that's ******* retarded.

It's essentially what he's saying. At least with RISP. I'm putting words in his mouth somewhat.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 6:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 6:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 6:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 5:47:00 PM (view original):
Somebody's going to have to help me out here, because I'm just not getting something.

If I have one of the best hitter's on my team, a guy who I think is on his way to a HOF-worthy career based entirely on his hitting abilities, coming up to the plate late in the game with the game on the line, why would I be thinking "gee, I hope he walks, because that will really improve our chances of winning this game with our .265 hitter on deck"?

Maybe it's just me, but I want him to be aggressive, trying to put the ball in play.

No one is hoping he walks in that situation. I'm only saying that his ability to walk was not a bad thing. Mike thinks it was.

It's ridiculous that it has come to this. Martinez came up to bat in the ninth with two outs, a runner on third (and first or second) and his team down by a run or tied and walked all of 3 times. Over his entire career. I think we can put it the issue to rest.

Maybe taking the bat off his shoulder and lining a double into the gap would have been a better thing.

Just maybe.

He was intentionally walked 2 out of those 3 times. Taking the bat off his shoulder wasn't an option.

He should have swung anyway.

He should have swung anyway and that's why he's not a HOFer.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 3:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 3:12:00 PM (view original):
You're arguing that Martinez's walk rate is a bad thing because, in one hypothetical example, you'd rather have him put the ball in play. So what? That isn't relevant to his overall career walk rate because that hypothetical could apply to anyone, including a guy like Mantle who walked 13% of the time.

Who would you rather have, A or B?

I think I've been pretty clear on what I'd rather have.   I'd like my better hitters swinging the bat when my lesser hitters are standing on deck.  How do I need to word this so I don't have to answer it again?

I guess I didn't word it properly.

I'd take 20 walks off the board if I could get 7 hits in those 20 AB in most situations.    Specifically, if it was my #5 hitter who constantly hit .320ish and my #6 hitter was a .250ish guy. 

Posted by burnsy483 on 2/7/2014 6:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 6:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 6:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 5:47:00 PM (view original):
Somebody's going to have to help me out here, because I'm just not getting something.

If I have one of the best hitter's on my team, a guy who I think is on his way to a HOF-worthy career based entirely on his hitting abilities, coming up to the plate late in the game with the game on the line, why would I be thinking "gee, I hope he walks, because that will really improve our chances of winning this game with our .265 hitter on deck"?

Maybe it's just me, but I want him to be aggressive, trying to put the ball in play.

No one is hoping he walks in that situation. I'm only saying that his ability to walk was not a bad thing. Mike thinks it was.

It's ridiculous that it has come to this. Martinez came up to bat in the ninth with two outs, a runner on third (and first or second) and his team down by a run or tied and walked all of 3 times. Over his entire career. I think we can put it the issue to rest.

Maybe taking the bat off his shoulder and lining a double into the gap would have been a better thing.

Just maybe.

Yes, he should have swung at balls out of the strike zone.

Are all walks issued with only four pitches?

Perhaps there were some hitable pitches that were taken for called strikes.

Take the bat off your shoulder, Edgar.  Be aggressive up there.  Be the ******* HOF hitter that BL and burnsy will believe you to be in another 15 years or so.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 6:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 6:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 6:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 5:47:00 PM (view original):
Somebody's going to have to help me out here, because I'm just not getting something.

If I have one of the best hitter's on my team, a guy who I think is on his way to a HOF-worthy career based entirely on his hitting abilities, coming up to the plate late in the game with the game on the line, why would I be thinking "gee, I hope he walks, because that will really improve our chances of winning this game with our .265 hitter on deck"?

Maybe it's just me, but I want him to be aggressive, trying to put the ball in play.

No one is hoping he walks in that situation. I'm only saying that his ability to walk was not a bad thing. Mike thinks it was.

It's ridiculous that it has come to this. Martinez came up to bat in the ninth with two outs, a runner on third (and first or second) and his team down by a run or tied and walked all of 3 times. Over his entire career. I think we can put it the issue to rest.

Maybe taking the bat off his shoulder and lining a double into the gap would have been a better thing.

Just maybe.

He was intentionally walked 2 out of those 3 times. Taking the bat off his shoulder wasn't an option.

Is "the ninth with two outs, a runner on third (and first or second) and his team down by a run or tied" the only possible clutch situation in a baseball game?

Stop being a jackass and trying to narrow the argument down to one specific scenario.

Can you imagine what Mickey Mantle would have done if he were actually an aggressive hitter? What a *****. Swing the ******* bat.

Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 7:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 6:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 6:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 6:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/7/2014 5:47:00 PM (view original):
Somebody's going to have to help me out here, because I'm just not getting something.

If I have one of the best hitter's on my team, a guy who I think is on his way to a HOF-worthy career based entirely on his hitting abilities, coming up to the plate late in the game with the game on the line, why would I be thinking "gee, I hope he walks, because that will really improve our chances of winning this game with our .265 hitter on deck"?

Maybe it's just me, but I want him to be aggressive, trying to put the ball in play.

No one is hoping he walks in that situation. I'm only saying that his ability to walk was not a bad thing. Mike thinks it was.

It's ridiculous that it has come to this. Martinez came up to bat in the ninth with two outs, a runner on third (and first or second) and his team down by a run or tied and walked all of 3 times. Over his entire career. I think we can put it the issue to rest.

Maybe taking the bat off his shoulder and lining a double into the gap would have been a better thing.

Just maybe.

He was intentionally walked 2 out of those 3 times. Taking the bat off his shoulder wasn't an option.

Is "the ninth with two outs, a runner on third (and first or second) and his team down by a run or tied" the only possible clutch situation in a baseball game?

Stop being a jackass and trying to narrow the argument down to one specific scenario.

Please direct your retardedness towards mike, the guy that came up with the ridiculous hypothetical.

Yet you researched his "ridiculous hypothetical" like a good little monkey.  Where's the retardedness?

I ran a BR report so that he'd shut up and it worked. Well worth the 4 minutes it took.