By the way, the reason I say that the engine doesn't work like that (getting 4YPC every play) is due to the numbers that Chalvorson shared recently.  While your median will be high, what he has noticed is those numbers are inflated by long runs that the RB's break off throughout a game.  Most runs are in the -1 to +5 yard variety.  Go back through your games and you'll notice how this happens on long drives.  My point is that you have to have an answer for 3rd & medium/long or you will not win as often as you think you should regardless of your talent.

Posted by svensvenssen on 1/21/2014 4:10:00 PM (view original):
Okay, so 213 yards in a game (4.0 yards/carry) is considered a lack of production.  There are not the ridiculous numbers that running teams put up in beta, so I really don't see as 213 yards rushing in a game as a lack production.  Maybe if your average was around 3 yards per carry or so.

Yes, 4 yards per carry is a lack of production. The average ypc is somewhere around 3.3 YPC. Leaders in division three typically are between 7 and 9 yards per carry.

Here are the leaders in order of most yardage (not even necessarily YPC)

1. 8.33
2. 7.54
3. 8.23
4. 5.73
5. 6.78
6. 6.27
7. 7.61
8. 6.01
9. 5.81
10. 6.21

Ok...so maybe GUESS is wrong and he is not the #4 Halback in DIII. Cool. However, to say that he, combined with a solid line with advantages across all ratings (not just the "cores" as you say should be getting the results in this game as happened is ludicrous. People are acting like the average ypc is like 2.2 or something. Its not. It never has been.

Posted by jtd79 on 1/21/2014 4:14:00 PM (view original):
Noah, I know you don't want to hear this but after reviewing the game you posted your play calling on both sides was just far too vanilla even for a SIM.  You decided to run it up the gut out of PS on roughly 80% of your plays with a handful of passing plays out of PS and SG.  Just looking at it, you clearly expected to get 4+ YPC every play running it right up the gut into their best defenders (DL).  Since the engine doesn't work like that, all it took was one stuff per series or an inopportune penalty to derail you and put you into a 3& Med/Long and you struggled to complete a pass regularly to keep your drive alive.  This shows me that your formation's and play calls for 3rd and med/long were flawed in some way.  Go back and look at your 3rd down play calls and you'll see what I mean.  For some reason you were allowing your QB to check down to a short pass on 3&7+ multiple times which killed drives.  Even if you complete that pass, you were gaining 1-6 yards unless you broke a tackle and this forced you to punt.  Again, poor play calling by allowing your QB to check down to that level.  Think about how often you curse an NFL or College team for not throwing beyond the sticks on 3rd down....that's what you were doing.  Add in some turnovers and settling for long FG's and you have a recipe for making it easy for your opponent.

On the other side of the balm you invited disaster.  Defending every play call with the 3-4 or 4-3 just doesn't cut it most of the time.  You were giving up easy completions to Trips when you were in the 3-4 on obvious passing down against that formation.  

Im not sure why your were so vanilla, but like DDingo said, the answers to your questions are right there in the PBP.

And what you can't see is what each formation does and the variety within it. In 3-4 in passing situations, for instance. Sure. You can say that I only have 2 CB's and 2 S's in coverage, but I also had 4 LB's in coverage, or 3 or 2. My linebackers are inherently better then my corners and safeties and I have had zero success (against the pass) in nickel or dime. What I have had success in nickel and dime is actually against the run. That makes no sense either. I gameplanned this way because it was what worked in the sim. Am I going to have to go back to gameplanning like I did for 2.0? Kinda defeats the purpose of 3.0 to me.

All of this tells me I'm right. We are slowly going back to 2.0.

Noah, that's simply not true.  Your LB's are actually worse than your top 4 DB's (all upper classmen) while your LB's are all Fr/So.  Im sorry, your thought that Nickel or Dime performs worse against the pass is simply not true.  It wasn't true in 1.0, 2.0 nor in 3.0.  Flooding the short to intermediate zones with LB's is useful but certainly does not outperform getting a man on each WR while still flooding the zones with DB's and an LB or two.

Posted by noah23 on 1/21/2014 4:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by svensvenssen on 1/21/2014 4:10:00 PM (view original):
Okay, so 213 yards in a game (4.0 yards/carry) is considered a lack of production.  There are not the ridiculous numbers that running teams put up in beta, so I really don't see as 213 yards rushing in a game as a lack production.  Maybe if your average was around 3 yards per carry or so.

Yes, 4 yards per carry is a lack of production. The average ypc is somewhere around 3.3 YPC. Leaders in division three typically are between 7 and 9 yards per carry.

Here are the leaders in order of most yardage (not even necessarily YPC)

1. 8.33
2. 7.54
3. 8.23
4. 5.73
5. 6.78
6. 6.27
7. 7.61
8. 6.01
9. 5.81
10. 6.21

Ok...so maybe GUESS is wrong and he is not the #4 Halback in DIII. Cool. However, to say that he, combined with a solid line with advantages across all ratings (not just the "cores" as you say should be getting the results in this game as happened is ludicrous. People are acting like the average ypc is like 2.2 or something. Its not. It never has been.

3.3 YPC and 4.0 YPC is the difference between a first down and a punt. Discrepancies of .7 are actually quite large, and means you ARE rushing well.

Honestly, the more I read this, the more I think you just don't understand the engine yet, Noah. Not many of us do, but it's alright to admit that and start trying different methods. 

Posted by noah23 on 1/21/2014 4:37:00 PM (view original):
All of this tells me I'm right. We are slowly going back to 2.0.

You came into this thread with your mind made up, it appears. We can't help you there.

Posted by caesari on 1/21/2014 6:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by noah23 on 1/21/2014 4:37:00 PM (view original):
All of this tells me I'm right. We are slowly going back to 2.0.

You came into this thread with your mind made up, it appears. We can't help you there.

No one has addressed the issues. no one has attempted to help to this point. Its not like I came to these conclusions lightly. It was after testing this game thousands of times that I came up with the gameplan that I came up with. Nickel did not work against the pass in the beta. Never understood why, but it never did. I have no IQ in nickel or dime so I doubt that would help me short term. I was thinking about switching back to nickel and 4-3 again, but thats a long term thing not a short term thing. I don't have much of a long term at this point.

Nobody has addressed the fact that my offensive line was superior to the defensive line. No one has addressed the reality of us not knowing for sure what goes into a play. All I have learned is that its impossible to run consistently against inferior talent and I should go back to passing all the time. I would love some help. My mind is a bit ridgid, but if I saw actual help and actual explanation as to why I can't run the ball against inferior competition I would be thanking all of you. All I'm getting is sarcastic comments or agreement with my sentiments. I'm not the only one and the lack of communication is what is causing this right now.

And what the heck does being vanilla have anything to do with anything? All there is is "guess run" or "guess pass" with SimAI. They don't have multiple formations or 8 men in the box or anything like that to be able to adjust to me running the same type of play every down.

For those that said my defense is better in the secondary.... neither my position roles nor my guess ranking agrees with that assessment. A+ Rushing B Passing defense. Which, of course, has nothing to do with my actual complaint, but thats apparently been lost as well. It was not about how close the game was. It was not about my defense not performing (which it actually did quite nicely imo) it was about my offensive line and running back performance when matched up against an inferior defense.

I think people have tried to offer some legit answers but you're just not listening. Your reaction to what I was saying was "GI. ok". What if GI is the most important metric? you dont seem to want to think that anything but cores matter. His starting DL vs your starting OL 45 to 43 in his favor for GI. 50 to 45 in his favor for TECH. Even if tech is just consistency then he'll consistently stop you.
Not to mention that you ran up the middle EVERY time. Assume the depth charts are filled in the order they appear; his best DL and LB are right in the middle where you ran every time.
Maybe your assumption of what is "superior" and "inferior" isn't right.

This was my point in the earlier post. Don't assume you've got it figured out and there is something wrong with the game, try to figure out where you've got it wrong.

Posted by huckslim on 1/21/2014 10:16:00 PM (view original):
I think people have tried to offer some legit answers but you're just not listening. Your reaction to what I was saying was "GI. ok". What if GI is the most important metric? you dont seem to want to think that anything but cores matter. His starting DL vs your starting OL 45 to 43 in his favor for GI. 50 to 45 in his favor for TECH. Even if tech is just consistency then he'll consistently stop you.
Not to mention that you ran up the middle EVERY time. Assume the depth charts are filled in the order they appear; his best DL and LB are right in the middle where you ran every time.
Maybe your assumption of what is "superior" and "inferior" isn't right.

This was my point in the earlier post. Don't assume you've got it figured out and there is something wrong with the game, try to figure out where you've got it wrong.

Ok...so GI is more important then I thought. Doesn't explain it. He still has passable GI and his Tech is good as well. The middle of the defense is DL2 DL3 according to oriole's post. Not 1. So it would be the second and third best on a generic depth chart which a simai runs on. What is anyone trying to tell me. Sure you are maybe trying to imply things, but all I know is what was superior and inferior was one thing in beta, is now apparently another thing now with no communication on what it is. Communication, ie my biggest complaint in this thread.

Ok...so I'm giving up 2 in GI, 5 in tech. So he will be more consistent and barely more heady in the inside. However, the Strength comparison is a 10 point difference. My blocking is superior. These  things are listed as primary in an OL. This is based on the communication from devs. GI is more important on an inside run for the RB, but nothing has been said about it being so. When I see something listed as consistency...I read that they consistently accomplish their other attributes. So my guys are a little less consistent, but 5 points shouldn't make up for a 10 point discrepency very often.

LB also would be his second best LB in the middle according to the dev chat post.

I am trying to calm myself down, and maybe I'm reading too much into what I'm  reading but from my perspective until that last post all I was seeing was  "you just didn't know anything and don't know anything" which may be true, but it does absolutely nothing to come at anyone from that perspective. Its not like I'm the only person you are saying that to when you do.

I can dig the compliant about communication. Clearly you're not the only one upset about it. Obviously I don't read that stuff too often or I'd have known about the depth charts. A lot of the fun in this for me is trying o figure it out rather than being told how it works. Like I said before knowing too much about how everything works would make it much less interesting to me.

To me, its not interesting unless I have some sort of....guide on how things go. If I had test game....give me no info...its cool. Without it (and I would just be scrimmaging) then I need something to go on.