Most overvalued / undervalued ratings? Topic

i agree terps, one of the bigger flaws in this game traditionally is that good team passing doesn't factor in enough to getting guys open. before the new engine it didn't factor in at all, now, i think it just doesn't factor in correctly. it seems to me a great passing team with a shooter like guys you mention, will definitely help the shooters get open even if they don't have the spd/bh to create opportunities themselves. there are basically two ways to get open in the halfcourt it seems to me, in a reasonably simplified view - through the team, and creating for yourself, and in HD i don't think the team route works well enough. its a lot better today with team passing being meaningful but i don't personally think it goes quite far enough. also, seble said its only passing and iq that factors into this, not bh which is a little crazy to me, like guys don't get their team mates open looks by breaking the defense down off the dribble? i think ath/spd should actually factor in as well but because ath is overvalued in the engine i certainly wouldn't ask seble to do that without making adjustments elsewhere.
4/29/2014 3:11 PM
I think LP is overrated, along with REB to a lesser extent.  Not that they aren't important, but I think most coaches weigh them a bit too heavily.

I'm not sure what I would say is underrated, but I know that even with big men I'll steer clear of players with single-digit ratings in pretty much anything.  It isn't that I think big men need high values in SPD/PE/BH/PASS ("guard traits", I guess you'd call them), but I can't bring myself to take players who are hugely deficient in those areas.  I just picture Herman Munster lumbering around under the bucket and can't bring myself to sign him.  ("Lily, it just isn't fair!")  For that reason, I seldom have more than one player listed at C on my roster, and almost always have guys listed as SG's playing the SF position.

4/29/2014 3:11 PM
Wait, are you saying Brust is slow or not athletic?
4/29/2014 3:14 PM
davis, i'd try some guys like that, just to get a feel for the maximum delta. ive had tons of bigs who literally had 1 speed and single digits or maybe 10-20 in per, bh, pass, who were great for me, as a low scorer. i generally think big man offense is still a little under weighted relative to guards from a realistic standpoint, especially for dominant bigs, but its not as bad as in the old days, when you basically had to get all your offense from the 1-3. that's why ive revised up my value on all those things, spd, per, bh, and to a lesser extent passing (because i kind of cared about it before), because now that bigs can score, and its clear guard skills complement ath/lp to make bigs effective, especially per. but i still think you can have a great big playing the 4 or 5 with terrible, just awful stats in all those areas, as long as you don't need much scoring out of him. i definitely like to get those pfs in d1 with 60 spd and 50 per/bh, thats a significant difference between 1 in those things - but i think that is almost all because of offense, not because of defense or rebounding, and i think a def/reb type big is perfectly acceptable on championship d1 teams. 
4/29/2014 3:17 PM
Posted by ettaexpress on 4/29/2014 3:14:00 PM (view original):
Wait, are you saying Brust is slow or not athletic?
Yes I am. Just like Arnholdt for MD last year 2013.  Dude couldn't dribble to save his life. If you want to discuss about this fine, if you're here to tell me I'm wrong I don't want to hear it. I changed this from my previous post because I thought you were getting ready to start ****.
4/29/2014 5:26 PM (edited)
i cant tell if hes jokingly impersonating etta or is serious
4/29/2014 4:56 PM

I was serious than saw he had a decent conversation in another thread so I edited it.  Hopefully it won't be a mistake.

4/29/2014 5:27 PM (edited)
Posted by terps21234 on 4/29/2014 5:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ettaexpress on 4/29/2014 3:14:00 PM (view original):
Wait, are you saying Brust is slow or not athletic?
Yes I am. Just like Arnholdt for MD last year 2013.  Dude couldn't dribble to save his life. If you want to discuss about this fine, if you're here to tell me I'm wrong I don't want to hear it. I changed this from my previous post because I thought you were getting ready to start ****.
He's a 6-1 dude that averages like 5 boards a game. I don't even think I need to tell you you're wrong.
4/29/2014 7:39 PM
So what he averages 5 boards a game. I've seen smaller guys get between 5-6 boards per game. He can't create his own shot and doesn't have the speed to to get open. He is a fact, since you think you know everything, teams that shot a lot of 3pt their guards average more reb than usual. So NO I'm not wrong. Facts buddy!!!!!
4/29/2014 8:25 PM
He averages 4.5 reb a game. Speed and ath are different. You can be ath and jump but not be quick enough to create shot. That's speed, like blowing past defender for lay up.
4/29/2014 8:31 PM (edited)
Posted by gillispie1 on 4/29/2014 3:17:00 PM (view original):
davis, i'd try some guys like that, just to get a feel for the maximum delta. ive had tons of bigs who literally had 1 speed and single digits or maybe 10-20 in per, bh, pass, who were great for me, as a low scorer. i generally think big man offense is still a little under weighted relative to guards from a realistic standpoint, especially for dominant bigs, but its not as bad as in the old days, when you basically had to get all your offense from the 1-3. that's why ive revised up my value on all those things, spd, per, bh, and to a lesser extent passing (because i kind of cared about it before), because now that bigs can score, and its clear guard skills complement ath/lp to make bigs effective, especially per. but i still think you can have a great big playing the 4 or 5 with terrible, just awful stats in all those areas, as long as you don't need much scoring out of him. i definitely like to get those pfs in d1 with 60 spd and 50 per/bh, thats a significant difference between 1 in those things - but i think that is almost all because of offense, not because of defense or rebounding, and i think a def/reb type big is perfectly acceptable on championship d1 teams. 
Yeah, you're probably right.  I have an inherited player on my team right now who has a single-digit LP but has been conference player of the year twice in a row and has set the school record for FG%.  And he's probably a player I wouldn't have even recruited because of my bias against that archetype.

I know avoiding this type of player is not necessarily a rational move on my part, it is just a tough bias to overcome!

4/29/2014 8:32 PM
This feedback has been awesome. One thing that's surprised me is that so many people have picked PAS as underrated, but not BH. I've tended to think BH is more important for non-guards because it makes them more efficient scorers and reduces to's. Am I wrong here? And would your choice of offense make a difference in BH vs PAS?
4/30/2014 2:23 PM
I still think ball handling is more important than passing but IMO passing is underrated.
But if you asked me what rating I would rather have for pretty much any position I would say ball handling over passing.
I'm switching to a fastbreak offense so maybe that's why I prioritize ball handling and to a lesser extent passing. But the best teams are going to be full of athletic defending freaks and if I want to beat them I believe the best way is to just not turn the ball over. That being said the best player I've ever had was a 1 passing 1 perimeter center (flex not fastbreak).
4/30/2014 2:54 PM
The way I think of it is, if the player is a scorer, BH is more important. IF the player isn't a scorer, passing is more important.
4/30/2014 3:34 PM
Great thread....still relevant.
10/16/2016 9:14 PM
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