WHO CARES WHO IS WINNING?!  Fix the ******* system.

Stop paying people for doing nothing.  Period. 

Welfare shouldn't be a lifestyle; it should be a bridge to a better lifestyle.  Require vocational training for welfare recipients.  Teach them to do SOMETHING that contributes to society.  That way, they only get their welfare checks if they're working to better themselves

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 12:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by examinerebb on 6/5/2014 11:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/5/2014 7:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/5/2014 7:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/5/2014 5:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/5/2014 4:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/5/2014 3:15:00 PM (view original):
It also helps to NOT live in the most expensive enviroments possible.    You like the weather in SoCal?  Good for you.  You can't afford to pay for that.   Move.

And when everyone who works low paying jobs moves out of SoCal, New York City, the SF Bay area, Seattle, etc., what happens to the companies that employ low paid workers?

They employ high school students that live at home instead of ADULTS.  Like we did in the Bay Area in the 70's

Or they do like every business on earth.   They review their hiring practices and wage scale.

Trust me, if a business can't conduct business, they will do something so that they can or they will close up shop.

You know, free enterprise and all that bullshit.     Crazy right-wing bullshit, I know.

OK, great. And in the environment that we have now, the government allows companies to pay employees so little that the employees have to be on public assistance to survive. It's a wealth transfer from tax payers to companies that employ minimum wage workers. 

The wealth transfer occurs because the assistance doesn't create an incentive for anyone to improve their financial position.  As we've discussed earlier, and you agreed, it removes the incentive to do so, so the assistance is paid out in perpetuity.  Do something to fix the assistance system, or stop ******** about the wealth transfer from taxpayers.  Believe me when I tell you that every conservative wants every person receiving assistance to better their situation and start paying into the government coffers instead of taking from them.  Conseratives aren't the bad guys on this one - the people who blindly defend a broken, unsustainable assistance system are.

And, for the record, I'm 100% behind reforming the tax law, closing loopholes and raising the upper income tax tier.  But we need to fix the way we spend the money first.  I see absolutely no benefit in pouring more money into broken programs.

We both agree that the system is broken. How to fix it is where we disagree.

The way I look at it, there are three participants: low wage employers, low wage employees, and tax payers. Right now, who's really winning with the broken system?

Is it the low wage employees? Sure, they're the ones receiving assistance. But that's so that they can survive. I don't consider someone on assistance so that they can eat winning anything. Their lives suck.

The taxpayers certainly aren't winning. We pay for the assistance.

That leaves the low wage employers. They pay their front line employees such a small amount that the employees have to go on assistance (one company even encourages their workers to get food stamps). They maintain their margins, bonus out their executives, and are clearly benefiting from this system. A low minimum wage is a corporate subsidy.

Do you not understand that's how capitalism works?

The "winners" in the current system are the abusers who feel that it is their God given right as American citizens to be given all the "assistance" and entitlements that they demand, while they do little in return to try to better their situation.

Do you not understand that we don't live in a purely capitalist society?

I don't know how you could claim that people poor enough to qualify for food stamps are winning anything.

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Do you not understand that we don't live in a purely capitalist society?

I don't know how you could claim that people poor enough to qualify for food stamps are winning anything.

They contribute NOTHING.

They get money for contributing nothing..

Therefore, they are collecting more than they contribute; a net GAIN.  If you put nothing into a lottery, but receive a cash prize anyway... you win!

If they're receiving government assistance while making little to no effort to improve their economic status, if they find that a "good enough" sustainable lifestyle for them, then yes, they are "winning".

Unless you're so naive as to believe that there is no such thing as a welfare king/queen, those people who look for ways to exploit any and all potential government entitlements that they can receive.

Business 101.

Pay as little as possible to employees, charge as much as possible to customers, maximize profits.

If they aren't paying enough, no one will do the job.
If they are charging too much, no one will purchase the product.
If either of those occur, they will adjust without a govt mandate or they will go out of business.
Going out of business is bad for businesses.

It really doesn't get any simpler than that.

Posted by toddcommish on 6/6/2014 1:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Do you not understand that we don't live in a purely capitalist society?

I don't know how you could claim that people poor enough to qualify for food stamps are winning anything.

They contribute NOTHING.

They get money for contributing nothing..

Therefore, they are collecting more than they contribute; a net GAIN.  If you put nothing into a lottery, but receive a cash prize anyway... you win!

Would you trade places with them?

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/6/2014 1:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Do you not understand that we don't live in a purely capitalist society?

I don't know how you could claim that people poor enough to qualify for food stamps are winning anything.

They contribute NOTHING.

They get money for contributing nothing..

Therefore, they are collecting more than they contribute; a net GAIN.  If you put nothing into a lottery, but receive a cash prize anyway... you win!

Would you trade places with them?

No, because I want more for myself and my family, and I'm willing to WORK for it.  So I work my *** off (when I'm not pontificating here) to earn a good income so my family can live in a good neighborhood, my kids can go to college (and hopefully contribute to society), and occasionally go on nice vacations.

If i was a lazy, shiftless bum, the government would pay me to do that too.  So i don't hafta work, if my self-esteem bar is low enough.

I chose my path.  

Posted by toddcommish on 6/6/2014 1:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/6/2014 1:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Do you not understand that we don't live in a purely capitalist society?

I don't know how you could claim that people poor enough to qualify for food stamps are winning anything.

They contribute NOTHING.

They get money for contributing nothing..

Therefore, they are collecting more than they contribute; a net GAIN.  If you put nothing into a lottery, but receive a cash prize anyway... you win!

Would you trade places with them?

No, because I want more for myself and my family, and I'm willing to WORK for it.  So I work my *** off (when I'm not pontificating here) to earn a good income so my family can live in a good neighborhood, my kids can go to college (and hopefully contribute to society), and occasionally go on nice vacations.

If i was a lazy, shiftless bum, the government would pay me to do that too.  So i don't hafta work, if my self-esteem bar is low enough.

I chose my path.  

Are all people on assistance "lazy, shiftless bums" who don't work hard?

Posted by toddcommish on 6/6/2014 1:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/6/2014 1:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Do you not understand that we don't live in a purely capitalist society?

I don't know how you could claim that people poor enough to qualify for food stamps are winning anything.

They contribute NOTHING.

They get money for contributing nothing..

Therefore, they are collecting more than they contribute; a net GAIN.  If you put nothing into a lottery, but receive a cash prize anyway... you win!

Would you trade places with them?

No, because I want more for myself and my family, and I'm willing to WORK for it.  So I work my *** off (when I'm not pontificating here) to earn a good income so my family can live in a good neighborhood, my kids can go to college (and hopefully contribute to society), and occasionally go on nice vacations.

If i was a lazy, shiftless bum, the government would pay me to do that too.  So i don't hafta work, if my self-esteem bar is low enough.

I chose my path.  

The left is all about freedom of choice except when it comes to personal responsibility.

When it comes to that, the "poor" are all victims of society rather than victims of their own poor choices (as sometimes is the case).

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/6/2014 1:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/6/2014 1:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Do you not understand that we don't live in a purely capitalist society?

I don't know how you could claim that people poor enough to qualify for food stamps are winning anything.

They contribute NOTHING.

They get money for contributing nothing..

Therefore, they are collecting more than they contribute; a net GAIN.  If you put nothing into a lottery, but receive a cash prize anyway... you win!

Would you trade places with them?

No, because I want more for myself and my family, and I'm willing to WORK for it.  So I work my *** off (when I'm not pontificating here) to earn a good income so my family can live in a good neighborhood, my kids can go to college (and hopefully contribute to society), and occasionally go on nice vacations.

If i was a lazy, shiftless bum, the government would pay me to do that too.  So i don't hafta work, if my self-esteem bar is low enough.

I chose my path.  

Are all people on assistance "lazy, shiftless bums" who don't work hard?

Would you agree that at least some are?

Posted by tecwrg on 6/6/2014 1:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/6/2014 1:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/6/2014 1:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2014 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Do you not understand that we don't live in a purely capitalist society?

I don't know how you could claim that people poor enough to qualify for food stamps are winning anything.

They contribute NOTHING.

They get money for contributing nothing..

Therefore, they are collecting more than they contribute; a net GAIN.  If you put nothing into a lottery, but receive a cash prize anyway... you win!

Would you trade places with them?

No, because I want more for myself and my family, and I'm willing to WORK for it.  So I work my *** off (when I'm not pontificating here) to earn a good income so my family can live in a good neighborhood, my kids can go to college (and hopefully contribute to society), and occasionally go on nice vacations.

If i was a lazy, shiftless bum, the government would pay me to do that too.  So i don't hafta work, if my self-esteem bar is low enough.

I chose my path.  

Are all people on assistance "lazy, shiftless bums" who don't work hard?

Would you agree that at least some are?

I think some people are lazy regardless of how much money they have.

I think we all agree that most poor people aren't poor because they want or choose to be poor. 

Jeez.   Everyone knows, or has known, the guy that's more than content to "just get by".    He lives payday to payday and usually needs "$10 for gas" the day before his next payday because he's spent his last $10 on beer and a pack of smokes.

Let's not pretend everyone wants a better life. 

And let's sure as **** not pretend everyone wants to put more in to achieve a better life.

Poor people are poor for a number of reasons:
- Poor choices (this includes poor effort)
- Poor genetics (dealt a bad hand from the beginning)
- Poor luck (**** happens)

Most of the situations will fall under these three headers.  HARD WORK and perseverance can overcome #1 and #3.