Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:29:00 AM (view original):
First, I don't want to determine what other people NEED.  I'm sure you've seen the petulant child in a store, throwing a hissy fit, screaming "BUT I NEED IT!!!!"   Does he NEED that sparkly toy?  I'd say no.   But he believes he needs it.   Enough to risk an asswhuppin' for throwing a fit in public.   So, IMO, if someone says they NEED something, I believe they believe they NEED it and are willing to do what it takes to get it.    Doesn't matter if it's BL's proverbial 6th cheeseburger, the bratty kid's toy or Clooney's 5th house in Miami.   I can't imagine I NEED any of those things but they do.  Who am I to say how important those things are to them?

I can honestly say, when I don't have to work anymore, I'll close up or sell the business and move on with my life.  I don't know when that will be but I won't work because I want another car.   Or cheeseburger.    I have no idea where other's "comfort level" lies but I'll know mine when I get there.   If I'm George Clooney, I'm not working to buy a 5th house.   Not important to me.   But it must be to him.   He has obviously not reached that comfort level.

 

Posted by tecwrg on 6/17/2014 10:40:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:02:00 AM (view original):
You reach a point where you're comfortable, where the extra money doesn't matter too much anymore.  Otherwise you'd never retire, right?

Not sure about you, but I'd like to also live comfortably after I retire, when I have considerably less income than I have now.  In fact, that's probably when I'll be looking to spend MORE money doing things like traveling than I'm able to do now.

The money to do that is the money that BL INSISTS has less marginal value to me because I don't want or need to spend it RIGHT NOW.

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:29:00 AM (view original):
First, I don't want to determine what other people NEED.  I'm sure you've seen the petulant child in a store, throwing a hissy fit, screaming "BUT I NEED IT!!!!"   Does he NEED that sparkly toy?  I'd say no.   But he believes he needs it.   Enough to risk an asswhuppin' for throwing a fit in public.   So, IMO, if someone says they NEED something, I believe they believe they NEED it and are willing to do what it takes to get it.    Doesn't matter if it's BL's proverbial 6th cheeseburger, the bratty kid's toy or Clooney's 5th house in Miami.   I can't imagine I NEED any of those things but they do.  Who am I to say how important those things are to them?

I can honestly say, when I don't have to work anymore, I'll close up or sell the business and move on with my life.  I don't know when that will be but I won't work because I want another car.   Or cheeseburger.    I have no idea where other's "comfort level" lies but I'll know mine when I get there.   If I'm George Clooney, I'm not working to buy a 5th house.   Not important to me.   But it must be to him.   He has obviously not reached that comfort level.

 

That's kinda the point - the kid doesn't need the toy.  He does need a house to live in.  Maybe Clooney thinks he needs a 5th house, but he doesn't, certainly not as badly as he needs the 1st house.  So the money he spent on the 1st house was of more value than the 5th house.  The money spent on the house the kid is living in had more value than the toy would.

Does he not?   He knows he's going to get in trouble for throwing a public fit yet he does it anyway.   How can you be sure he doesn't NEED it?

I'm assuming your argument is everyone only NEEDS the basics.   Food and shelter.    If that's the case, every dime over 2k should be taxed.   I can eat pretty well on $40 a week and build a little shanty in the woods.   In fact, I could probably hunt, fish and farm for less than $40 per week.   So, IMO, maybe everything over $500 should be taxed.    Agreed?

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:29:00 AM (view original):
First, I don't want to determine what other people NEED.  I'm sure you've seen the petulant child in a store, throwing a hissy fit, screaming "BUT I NEED IT!!!!"   Does he NEED that sparkly toy?  I'd say no.   But he believes he needs it.   Enough to risk an asswhuppin' for throwing a fit in public.   So, IMO, if someone says they NEED something, I believe they believe they NEED it and are willing to do what it takes to get it.    Doesn't matter if it's BL's proverbial 6th cheeseburger, the bratty kid's toy or Clooney's 5th house in Miami.   I can't imagine I NEED any of those things but they do.  Who am I to say how important those things are to them?

I can honestly say, when I don't have to work anymore, I'll close up or sell the business and move on with my life.  I don't know when that will be but I won't work because I want another car.   Or cheeseburger.    I have no idea where other's "comfort level" lies but I'll know mine when I get there.   If I'm George Clooney, I'm not working to buy a 5th house.   Not important to me.   But it must be to him.   He has obviously not reached that comfort level.

 

That's kinda the point - the kid doesn't need the toy.  He does need a house to live in.  Maybe Clooney thinks he needs a 5th house, but he doesn't, certainly not as badly as he needs the 1st house.  So the money he spent on the 1st house was of more value than the 5th house.  The money spent on the house the kid is living in had more value than the toy would.

Does he not?   He knows he's going to get in trouble for throwing a public fit yet he does it anyway.   How can you be sure he doesn't NEED it?

I'm assuming your argument is everyone only NEEDS the basics.   Food and shelter.    If that's the case, every dime over 2k should be taxed.   I can eat pretty well on $40 a week and build a little shanty in the woods.   In fact, I could probably hunt, fish and farm for less than $40 per week.   So, IMO, maybe everything over $500 should be taxed.    Agreed?

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:29:00 AM (view original):
First, I don't want to determine what other people NEED.  I'm sure you've seen the petulant child in a store, throwing a hissy fit, screaming "BUT I NEED IT!!!!"   Does he NEED that sparkly toy?  I'd say no.   But he believes he needs it.   Enough to risk an asswhuppin' for throwing a fit in public.   So, IMO, if someone says they NEED something, I believe they believe they NEED it and are willing to do what it takes to get it.    Doesn't matter if it's BL's proverbial 6th cheeseburger, the bratty kid's toy or Clooney's 5th house in Miami.   I can't imagine I NEED any of those things but they do.  Who am I to say how important those things are to them?

I can honestly say, when I don't have to work anymore, I'll close up or sell the business and move on with my life.  I don't know when that will be but I won't work because I want another car.   Or cheeseburger.    I have no idea where other's "comfort level" lies but I'll know mine when I get there.   If I'm George Clooney, I'm not working to buy a 5th house.   Not important to me.   But it must be to him.   He has obviously not reached that comfort level.

 

That's kinda the point - the kid doesn't need the toy.  He does need a house to live in.  Maybe Clooney thinks he needs a 5th house, but he doesn't, certainly not as badly as he needs the 1st house.  So the money he spent on the 1st house was of more value than the 5th house.  The money spent on the house the kid is living in had more value than the toy would.

Does he not?   He knows he's going to get in trouble for throwing a public fit yet he does it anyway.   How can you be sure he doesn't NEED it?

I'm assuming your argument is everyone only NEEDS the basics.   Food and shelter.    If that's the case, every dime over 2k should be taxed.   I can eat pretty well on $40 a week and build a little shanty in the woods.   In fact, I could probably hunt, fish and farm for less than $40 per week.   So, IMO, maybe everything over $500 should be taxed.    Agreed?

How do I know?  Because he's 4 and he's perfectly fine once we leave the store.  He was wrong.  And it's a toy.

If you're suggesting that the very poor should move to the woods and build houses, I'd disagree.

Basic needs or not?  Food and shelter.   A simple question.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:29:00 AM (view original):
First, I don't want to determine what other people NEED.  I'm sure you've seen the petulant child in a store, throwing a hissy fit, screaming "BUT I NEED IT!!!!"   Does he NEED that sparkly toy?  I'd say no.   But he believes he needs it.   Enough to risk an asswhuppin' for throwing a fit in public.   So, IMO, if someone says they NEED something, I believe they believe they NEED it and are willing to do what it takes to get it.    Doesn't matter if it's BL's proverbial 6th cheeseburger, the bratty kid's toy or Clooney's 5th house in Miami.   I can't imagine I NEED any of those things but they do.  Who am I to say how important those things are to them?

I can honestly say, when I don't have to work anymore, I'll close up or sell the business and move on with my life.  I don't know when that will be but I won't work because I want another car.   Or cheeseburger.    I have no idea where other's "comfort level" lies but I'll know mine when I get there.   If I'm George Clooney, I'm not working to buy a 5th house.   Not important to me.   But it must be to him.   He has obviously not reached that comfort level.

 

That's kinda the point - the kid doesn't need the toy.  He does need a house to live in.  Maybe Clooney thinks he needs a 5th house, but he doesn't, certainly not as badly as he needs the 1st house.  So the money he spent on the 1st house was of more value than the 5th house.  The money spent on the house the kid is living in had more value than the toy would.

Does he not?   He knows he's going to get in trouble for throwing a public fit yet he does it anyway.   How can you be sure he doesn't NEED it?

I'm assuming your argument is everyone only NEEDS the basics.   Food and shelter.    If that's the case, every dime over 2k should be taxed.   I can eat pretty well on $40 a week and build a little shanty in the woods.   In fact, I could probably hunt, fish and farm for less than $40 per week.   So, IMO, maybe everything over $500 should be taxed.    Agreed?

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:45:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 6/17/2014 10:40:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:02:00 AM (view original):
You reach a point where you're comfortable, where the extra money doesn't matter too much anymore.  Otherwise you'd never retire, right?

Not sure about you, but I'd like to also live comfortably after I retire, when I have considerably less income than I have now.  In fact, that's probably when I'll be looking to spend MORE money doing things like traveling than I'm able to do now.

The money to do that is the money that BL INSISTS has less marginal value to me because I don't want or need to spend it RIGHT NOW.

That's fair.  But some of the money you spend now is money you need to spend. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:29:00 AM (view original):
First, I don't want to determine what other people NEED.  I'm sure you've seen the petulant child in a store, throwing a hissy fit, screaming "BUT I NEED IT!!!!"   Does he NEED that sparkly toy?  I'd say no.   But he believes he needs it.   Enough to risk an asswhuppin' for throwing a fit in public.   So, IMO, if someone says they NEED something, I believe they believe they NEED it and are willing to do what it takes to get it.    Doesn't matter if it's BL's proverbial 6th cheeseburger, the bratty kid's toy or Clooney's 5th house in Miami.   I can't imagine I NEED any of those things but they do.  Who am I to say how important those things are to them?

I can honestly say, when I don't have to work anymore, I'll close up or sell the business and move on with my life.  I don't know when that will be but I won't work because I want another car.   Or cheeseburger.    I have no idea where other's "comfort level" lies but I'll know mine when I get there.   If I'm George Clooney, I'm not working to buy a 5th house.   Not important to me.   But it must be to him.   He has obviously not reached that comfort level.

 

That's kinda the point - the kid doesn't need the toy.  He does need a house to live in.  Maybe Clooney thinks he needs a 5th house, but he doesn't, certainly not as badly as he needs the 1st house.  So the money he spent on the 1st house was of more value than the 5th house.  The money spent on the house the kid is living in had more value than the toy would.

Does he not?   He knows he's going to get in trouble for throwing a public fit yet he does it anyway.   How can you be sure he doesn't NEED it?

I'm assuming your argument is everyone only NEEDS the basics.   Food and shelter.    If that's the case, every dime over 2k should be taxed.   I can eat pretty well on $40 a week and build a little shanty in the woods.   In fact, I could probably hunt, fish and farm for less than $40 per week.   So, IMO, maybe everything over $500 should be taxed.    Agreed?

How do I know?  Because he's 4 and he's perfectly fine once we leave the store.  He was wrong.  And it's a toy.

If you're suggesting that the very poor should move to the woods and build houses, I'd disagree.

Basic needs or not?  Food and shelter.   A simple question.

Posted by bad_luck on 6/17/2014 10:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:29:00 AM (view original):
First, I don't want to determine what other people NEED.  I'm sure you've seen the petulant child in a store, throwing a hissy fit, screaming "BUT I NEED IT!!!!"   Does he NEED that sparkly toy?  I'd say no.   But he believes he needs it.   Enough to risk an asswhuppin' for throwing a fit in public.   So, IMO, if someone says they NEED something, I believe they believe they NEED it and are willing to do what it takes to get it.    Doesn't matter if it's BL's proverbial 6th cheeseburger, the bratty kid's toy or Clooney's 5th house in Miami.   I can't imagine I NEED any of those things but they do.  Who am I to say how important those things are to them?

I can honestly say, when I don't have to work anymore, I'll close up or sell the business and move on with my life.  I don't know when that will be but I won't work because I want another car.   Or cheeseburger.    I have no idea where other's "comfort level" lies but I'll know mine when I get there.   If I'm George Clooney, I'm not working to buy a 5th house.   Not important to me.   But it must be to him.   He has obviously not reached that comfort level.

 

That's kinda the point - the kid doesn't need the toy.  He does need a house to live in.  Maybe Clooney thinks he needs a 5th house, but he doesn't, certainly not as badly as he needs the 1st house.  So the money he spent on the 1st house was of more value than the 5th house.  The money spent on the house the kid is living in had more value than the toy would.

Does he not?   He knows he's going to get in trouble for throwing a public fit yet he does it anyway.   How can you be sure he doesn't NEED it?

I'm assuming your argument is everyone only NEEDS the basics.   Food and shelter.    If that's the case, every dime over 2k should be taxed.   I can eat pretty well on $40 a week and build a little shanty in the woods.   In fact, I could probably hunt, fish and farm for less than $40 per week.   So, IMO, maybe everything over $500 should be taxed.    Agreed?

The argument isn't that you only need the basics. The argument is that, once you have the basics, additional dollars improve your standard of living by a smaller amount. Eventually you get to a point where additional dollars add nothing. That doesn't mean people don't still want those additional dollars--there are plenty of billionaires still working to make more--but the utility of those dollars is at or near zero.

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 10:29:00 AM (view original):
First, I don't want to determine what other people NEED.  I'm sure you've seen the petulant child in a store, throwing a hissy fit, screaming "BUT I NEED IT!!!!"   Does he NEED that sparkly toy?  I'd say no.   But he believes he needs it.   Enough to risk an asswhuppin' for throwing a fit in public.   So, IMO, if someone says they NEED something, I believe they believe they NEED it and are willing to do what it takes to get it.    Doesn't matter if it's BL's proverbial 6th cheeseburger, the bratty kid's toy or Clooney's 5th house in Miami.   I can't imagine I NEED any of those things but they do.  Who am I to say how important those things are to them?

I can honestly say, when I don't have to work anymore, I'll close up or sell the business and move on with my life.  I don't know when that will be but I won't work because I want another car.   Or cheeseburger.    I have no idea where other's "comfort level" lies but I'll know mine when I get there.   If I'm George Clooney, I'm not working to buy a 5th house.   Not important to me.   But it must be to him.   He has obviously not reached that comfort level.

 

That's kinda the point - the kid doesn't need the toy.  He does need a house to live in.  Maybe Clooney thinks he needs a 5th house, but he doesn't, certainly not as badly as he needs the 1st house.  So the money he spent on the 1st house was of more value than the 5th house.  The money spent on the house the kid is living in had more value than the toy would.

Does he not?   He knows he's going to get in trouble for throwing a public fit yet he does it anyway.   How can you be sure he doesn't NEED it?

I'm assuming your argument is everyone only NEEDS the basics.   Food and shelter.    If that's the case, every dime over 2k should be taxed.   I can eat pretty well on $40 a week and build a little shanty in the woods.   In fact, I could probably hunt, fish and farm for less than $40 per week.   So, IMO, maybe everything over $500 should be taxed.    Agreed?

How do I know?  Because he's 4 and he's perfectly fine once we leave the store.  He was wrong.  And it's a toy.

If you're suggesting that the very poor should move to the woods and build houses, I'd disagree.

Basic needs or not?  Food and shelter.   A simple question.

Yes.

Posted by tecwrg on 6/17/2014 10:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:45:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 6/17/2014 10:40:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 10:02:00 AM (view original):
You reach a point where you're comfortable, where the extra money doesn't matter too much anymore.  Otherwise you'd never retire, right?

Not sure about you, but I'd like to also live comfortably after I retire, when I have considerably less income than I have now.  In fact, that's probably when I'll be looking to spend MORE money doing things like traveling than I'm able to do now.

The money to do that is the money that BL INSISTS has less marginal value to me because I don't want or need to spend it RIGHT NOW.

That's fair.  But some of the money you spend now is money you need to spend. 

Sure.  Just like some of the money I don't need to spend today I'm saving, because I know I'll need to spend it tomorrow.

According to BL, that money has diminishing marginal value.

I disagree.  The only time my money will have diminished marginal value will be when I'm dead.

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 11:06:00 AM (view original):
I never said it was $500.  I don't know the number, but I know there isn't a chance in hell someone could live on $500 a year where I live.  

I've told you before that I'm uncomfortable with shifting the tax burden to the lower and middle class.  I think we're better off as a society if the upper class is taxed at a slightly higher percentage.  I think we should build higher brackets than $400K as well.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/17/2014 12:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 6/17/2014 11:06:00 AM (view original):
I never said it was $500.  I don't know the number, but I know there isn't a chance in hell someone could live on $500 a year where I live.  

I've told you before that I'm uncomfortable with shifting the tax burden to the lower and middle class.  I think we're better off as a society if the upper class is taxed at a slightly higher percentage.  I think we should build higher brackets than $400K as well.

Then someone making $500 a year shouldn't live where you live.   They're creating a circumstance where they can't make it on their income.   I imagine Clooney could not live on $500 a year either.   He's created his own situation too.   But basic needs, as agreed upon by us(food/shelter), can be had for $500 a year if you build your situation to make it so.

So I assume you're behind my sales tax replaces income tax plan with a basic need exemption(which is $500).

Glad it only took 77 pages to reach an agreement.