Posted by tecwrg on 6/24/2014 3:11:00 PM (view original):
You say there's no shortage of capital, which is provided from the upper class.  Yet you propose taking away some of that money from them.  You know, the "diminished marginal utility" money that you say they won't miss.

Why do you think that won't create a decrease in the amount of capital investment funding?  Demand is great, but if the capacity to meet those demands, i.e. creating jobs, is diminished, how is that good for the economy?

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/24/2014 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I've answered that several times.   I've suggested that the tax money brought in by taxing illegals, illegally made money, foreign tourist dollars and eliminating loopholes for the rich will more than make up the money "lost" by taxing those who do not pay taxes an extra 15% or so on purchases.   People will figure out a way to make it work.   And, if I'm correct, the sales tax will go down from 23%(or whatever number was thrown out as the "average" amount taxed) due to the sources of untapped tax revenue.  Will there be an adjustment period?  Sure.   Omelet, eggs, you know the story.

Posted by greeny9 on 6/24/2014 4:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/24/2014 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I've answered that several times.   I've suggested that the tax money brought in by taxing illegals, illegally made money, foreign tourist dollars and eliminating loopholes for the rich will more than make up the money "lost" by taxing those who do not pay taxes an extra 15% or so on purchases.   People will figure out a way to make it work.   And, if I'm correct, the sales tax will go down from 23%(or whatever number was thrown out as the "average" amount taxed) due to the sources of untapped tax revenue.  Will there be an adjustment period?  Sure.   Omelet, eggs, you know the story.

So your tax is above 23%? Congrats you are obviously in the upper middle class. Apparently the bottom 50% pay less then 2% of the total income tax. What I asked obviously doesn't affect you. I wasn't asking how it would affect you. So yet again you barely half way answered my question. I will ask it again, but in language you couldn't possibly misunderstand. If you force the bottom 50% to pay more tax will the economy suffer?

I don't think so.  People still have to buy goods, seek shelter, get transportation.   What once cost $1 will now be $1.23.   However, your $100 paycheck will be $123.  So the money will still be there.   The people who don't pay tax, or pay very little tax, seem to get it back in the early part of the year with tax returns.   That won't happen but they will have more money for the rest of the year.   And, if I'm correct, the money collected from illegals, illegally made money, foreign tourist dollars and eliminated tax loopholes, will allow the govt to reduce the 23% sales tax to a lower number in the future.

And, as an added benefit, everyone will feel that they're a contributing part of society.  No longer will anyone have to hang their head in shame when someone else says "I pay my taxes.  I can complain about the roads!!" because they don't pay taxes. 

Posted by greeny9 on 6/24/2014 4:53:00 PM (view original):
Or put another way if you were used to paying 0% tax and all of a sudden you were charged 23% would you not spend a whole lot less money?

Posted by greeny9 on 6/24/2014 4:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/24/2014 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I've answered that several times.   I've suggested that the tax money brought in by taxing illegals, illegally made money, foreign tourist dollars and eliminating loopholes for the rich will more than make up the money "lost" by taxing those who do not pay taxes an extra 15% or so on purchases.   People will figure out a way to make it work.   And, if I'm correct, the sales tax will go down from 23%(or whatever number was thrown out as the "average" amount taxed) due to the sources of untapped tax revenue.  Will there be an adjustment period?  Sure.   Omelet, eggs, you know the story.

So your tax is above 23%? Congrats you are obviously in the upper middle class. Apparently the bottom 50% pay less then 2% of the total income tax. What I asked obviously doesn't affect you. I wasn't asking how it would affect you. So yet again you barely half way answered my question. I will ask it again, but in language you couldn't possibly misunderstand. If you force the bottom 50% to pay more tax will the economy suffer?

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/24/2014 5:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by greeny9 on 6/24/2014 4:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/24/2014 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I've answered that several times.   I've suggested that the tax money brought in by taxing illegals, illegally made money, foreign tourist dollars and eliminating loopholes for the rich will more than make up the money "lost" by taxing those who do not pay taxes an extra 15% or so on purchases.   People will figure out a way to make it work.   And, if I'm correct, the sales tax will go down from 23%(or whatever number was thrown out as the "average" amount taxed) due to the sources of untapped tax revenue.  Will there be an adjustment period?  Sure.   Omelet, eggs, you know the story.

So your tax is above 23%? Congrats you are obviously in the upper middle class. Apparently the bottom 50% pay less then 2% of the total income tax. What I asked obviously doesn't affect you. I wasn't asking how it would affect you. So yet again you barely half way answered my question. I will ask it again, but in language you couldn't possibly misunderstand. If you force the bottom 50% to pay more tax will the economy suffer?

I don't think so.  People still have to buy goods, seek shelter, get transportation.   What once cost $1 will now be $1.23.   However, your $100 paycheck will be $123.  So the money will still be there.   The people who don't pay tax, or pay very little tax, seem to get it back in the early part of the year with tax returns.   That won't happen but they will have more money for the rest of the year.   And, if I'm correct, the money collected from illegals, illegally made money, foreign tourist dollars and eliminated tax loopholes, will allow the govt to reduce the 23% sales tax to a lower number in the future.

And, as an added benefit, everyone will feel that they're a contributing part of society.  No longer will anyone have to hang their head in shame when someone else says "I pay my taxes.  I can complain about the roads!!" because they don't pay taxes. 

Posted by bad_luck on 6/24/2014 5:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by greeny9 on 6/24/2014 4:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/24/2014 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I've answered that several times.   I've suggested that the tax money brought in by taxing illegals, illegally made money, foreign tourist dollars and eliminating loopholes for the rich will more than make up the money "lost" by taxing those who do not pay taxes an extra 15% or so on purchases.   People will figure out a way to make it work.   And, if I'm correct, the sales tax will go down from 23%(or whatever number was thrown out as the "average" amount taxed) due to the sources of untapped tax revenue.  Will there be an adjustment period?  Sure.   Omelet, eggs, you know the story.

So your tax is above 23%? Congrats you are obviously in the upper middle class. Apparently the bottom 50% pay less then 2% of the total income tax. What I asked obviously doesn't affect you. I wasn't asking how it would affect you. So yet again you barely half way answered my question. I will ask it again, but in language you couldn't possibly misunderstand. If you force the bottom 50% to pay more tax will the economy suffer?

Anyone with an effective tax rate over 23% is in the top 1% of incomes. Mike doesn't pay an effective Federal Income tax of over 23%.

Posted by greeny9 on 6/24/2014 5:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/24/2014 5:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by greeny9 on 6/24/2014 4:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/24/2014 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I've answered that several times.   I've suggested that the tax money brought in by taxing illegals, illegally made money, foreign tourist dollars and eliminating loopholes for the rich will more than make up the money "lost" by taxing those who do not pay taxes an extra 15% or so on purchases.   People will figure out a way to make it work.   And, if I'm correct, the sales tax will go down from 23%(or whatever number was thrown out as the "average" amount taxed) due to the sources of untapped tax revenue.  Will there be an adjustment period?  Sure.   Omelet, eggs, you know the story.

So your tax is above 23%? Congrats you are obviously in the upper middle class. Apparently the bottom 50% pay less then 2% of the total income tax. What I asked obviously doesn't affect you. I wasn't asking how it would affect you. So yet again you barely half way answered my question. I will ask it again, but in language you couldn't possibly misunderstand. If you force the bottom 50% to pay more tax will the economy suffer?

I don't think so.  People still have to buy goods, seek shelter, get transportation.   What once cost $1 will now be $1.23.   However, your $100 paycheck will be $123.  So the money will still be there.   The people who don't pay tax, or pay very little tax, seem to get it back in the early part of the year with tax returns.   That won't happen but they will have more money for the rest of the year.   And, if I'm correct, the money collected from illegals, illegally made money, foreign tourist dollars and eliminated tax loopholes, will allow the govt to reduce the 23% sales tax to a lower number in the future.

And, as an added benefit, everyone will feel that they're a contributing part of society.  No longer will anyone have to hang their head in shame when someone else says "I pay my taxes.  I can complain about the roads!!" because they don't pay taxes. 

omg seriously?  i honestly thought I asked the question right this time so that you would understand the point I am trying to make.  But it seems you arent getting it.  Maybe you are like Obama in that you dont understand what it is to be so poor that you have no choice but to eat KD every day.  If the bottom 50% are used to paying 0 income tax they have X dollars.  Now if all of a sudden they have to pay X dollars plus 23% retail sales tax they will have that much less money to spend.  Their pay checks arent going to go up by 23% unless you propose a rebate check that the bottom 50% get.  At which point I am fully on board with your plan.  But I suspect that those rebate checks will last only so long then the bottom 50% are going to be royally screwed.  Which seems to be all you are about MikeT.  ???

Posted by greeny9 on 6/24/2014 5:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/24/2014 5:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by greeny9 on 6/24/2014 4:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/24/2014 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I've answered that several times.   I've suggested that the tax money brought in by taxing illegals, illegally made money, foreign tourist dollars and eliminating loopholes for the rich will more than make up the money "lost" by taxing those who do not pay taxes an extra 15% or so on purchases.   People will figure out a way to make it work.   And, if I'm correct, the sales tax will go down from 23%(or whatever number was thrown out as the "average" amount taxed) due to the sources of untapped tax revenue.  Will there be an adjustment period?  Sure.   Omelet, eggs, you know the story.

So your tax is above 23%? Congrats you are obviously in the upper middle class. Apparently the bottom 50% pay less then 2% of the total income tax. What I asked obviously doesn't affect you. I wasn't asking how it would affect you. So yet again you barely half way answered my question. I will ask it again, but in language you couldn't possibly misunderstand. If you force the bottom 50% to pay more tax will the economy suffer?

Anyone with an effective tax rate over 23% is in the top 1% of incomes. Mike doesn't pay an effective Federal Income tax of over 23%.

The guy cant answer a simple question.  I mean the only answer that doesnt destroy the economy is if they give rebate checks to the poor.  But those rebate checks have to be a permanent program in order to keep the economy solid.  

I assumed, with no background check, that whoever threw out 23% was covering local, state, fed taxes.   My fed is just over 15% probably like everyone else who has time to argue social issues on a simsports site.   I was using 23% to be the new sales tax to cover current tax revenue.