Adrian Beltre Topic

ncmusician_7
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I think Schilling and Smoltz are very similar with regards to being HOF-worthy (either they both get in or neither).  The discrepancy in WAR is just one reason I don't think pitcher WAR is reliable at the moment.
7/30/2014 6:19 PM
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05nomar05
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Posted by toddcommish on 7/29/2014 6:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 7/29/2014 4:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 7/29/2014 4:42:00 PM (view original):
But if Beltre is in the "top 6 or 7 all-time", that would put Ramirez solidly in the top 10 all-time.  

Aside from the fact that Beltre is only in the top-10 all-time IF he maintains his current level for three or four more years.

If he had a career-ending injury this year, he would only get into the HOF with a ticket.
Same question I've asked everyone else maintaining this position: can you name 10 3B who had better careers than Beltre RIGHT NOW?  You said Beltre needs 3 or 4 more years to make it into the top 10, meaning he should be comfortably outside right now.  Who are your 10?
I'm saying Scott Rolen and Aramis Ramirez are comparable players.  Are you saying that they're top-ten?

Basically, you're looking at players who started after 1994 and put up similar numbers (Rolen, Ramirez, Beltre, IN THAT ORDER)

Oh, and Schmidt, Chipper, Mathews, Brett, Rosen, Dick Allen, Killebrew, Darrell Evans, Brooksie, Boggs, and HomeRun Baker would come before ALL THREE of those guys.  And that's off the top of my head.

Beltre is in the second tier of career 3B with Rolen, Ramirez, Santo, Cey, Bell...  Just because there aren't a lot of 3B in the HOF, doesn't mean they should lower the bar.  Hell, it was bad enough they let Maz in....



And David Wright is better (and younger)
Rosen?  Career 4,300 AB's.  Not to mention 930 games played at 3B.

Dick Allen?!?!  Played more games at 1B. (807 to 652).  Also, Beltre dwarfs him in all stats.

Darrell Evens?  A third of his games were played at 1B.  He has 1000 more AB's and 300 less hits.  He only has 21 more HR's and only 2 AS games and ZERO Gold Gloves.  

Some of those guys you listed played either more games at other positions or played a significant time at other positions.

For those calling Beltre a "Compiler"...that's a joke argument.  Beltre will be in the Hall.  Enough of this BS argument.


7/31/2014 10:05 AM
MikeT23
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Thanks for calling an end to this thread.   I'm sure that will work.

7/31/2014 10:10 AM
05nomar05
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Posted by MikeT23 on 7/31/2014 10:10:00 AM (view original):

Thanks for calling an end to this thread.   I'm sure that will work.

We all know it won't.  You troll around here.  Thanks for keeping it going...and going...and going...
7/31/2014 10:14 AM
MikeT23
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I thought you ended this thread with "Enough of this BS argument"?

Why are you still posting in it?
7/31/2014 10:29 AM
tecwrg
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7/31/2014 10:40 AM
05nomar05
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Posted by MikeT23 on 7/31/2014 10:29:00 AM (view original):
I thought you ended this thread with "Enough of this BS argument"?

Why are you still posting in it?
ha!  again...and again....and again....
7/31/2014 11:11 AM
MikeT23
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Sez the guy who keeps on posting after closing down the thread with the best argument evah!!!!
7/31/2014 12:13 PM
toddcommish
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Beltre has a lower OPS+ than almost all the guys I listed (one noticeable exception is Brooksie, who was already discussed).  Like I said, as an offensive force, looking at the big picture (all 16 years), he's similar to Aramis Ramirez and Scott Rolen.

Face it, he was unremarkable for 2/3 of his career.  He's put together four straight HOF worthy seasons over the last few years.... IF he had 6-8 of them, there would be no doubt about whether he belonged.  Unfortunately, some of us remember the solid, but not great seasons he had FOR AN ENTIRE DECADE.

He WAS a compiler, who is making an impressive closing rush.
7/31/2014 12:59 PM
MikeT23
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Uh, nomar ended this discussion at 10:05 this morning.  Why are you still posting?
7/31/2014 1:17 PM
toddcommish
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My bad.
7/31/2014 1:21 PM
toddcommish
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OK, I lied.  Seeing a post from someone named "Nomar" reminded me of someone with 4-5 really great years and a decade of being not-as-good.  Just stand on your head, and compare the numbers between Nomar going forward from 1997 to Beltre going backward from 2013, keeping in mind that Nomar played SS and got hurt during the last decade.  Four or five great years doesn't make a HOF career.
7/31/2014 1:28 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by toddcommish on 7/31/2014 12:59:00 PM (view original):
Beltre has a lower OPS+ than almost all the guys I listed (one noticeable exception is Brooksie, who was already discussed).  Like I said, as an offensive force, looking at the big picture (all 16 years), he's similar to Aramis Ramirez and Scott Rolen.

Face it, he was unremarkable for 2/3 of his career.  He's put together four straight HOF worthy seasons over the last few years.... IF he had 6-8 of them, there would be no doubt about whether he belonged.  Unfortunately, some of us remember the solid, but not great seasons he had FOR AN ENTIRE DECADE.

He WAS a compiler, who is making an impressive closing rush.
So your problem with him is the order that he did things?

I think everyone has acknowledged that Beltre would have an even stronger case if his walk rate had been better. But it isn't/wasn't, so his OPS+ is relatively low. That's a legitimate mark against him. He should have walked more.
7/31/2014 1:29 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by toddcommish on 7/31/2014 1:28:00 PM (view original):
OK, I lied.  Seeing a post from someone named "Nomar" reminded me of someone with 4-5 really great years and a decade of being not-as-good.  Just stand on your head, and compare the numbers between Nomar going forward from 1997 to Beltre going backward from 2013, keeping in mind that Nomar played SS and got hurt during the last decade.  Four or five great years doesn't make a HOF career.
Nomar hit .313/.361/.521 with an OPS+ of 124, 229 HR, 64 net SB, 1747 hits, and 44 WAR over 6116 PA 
Beltre hit .284/.335/.479 with an OPS+ of 115, 391 HR, 76 net SB, 2543 hits, and 75 WAR over 9780 PA

Nomar was awesome and would be a Hall of Famer if he had been able to put together another just above average 4000+ PA.
7/31/2014 1:36 PM
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