Ferguson Police should be outlawed Topic

Posted by moy23 on 8/31/2014 7:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 7:02:00 PM (view original):
The consequences need to fall on police for overreacting. They have a choice too.
The consequences are sorted out in court... That's how it works. There are already consequences for police negligence. Cops get terminated, suspended, demoted, or do jail time. Happens all the time.

If you want to argue with a cop that's your prerogative... I'm certainly not, especially if I am in the right because if I'm dead it doesn't really matter, does it?
I don't think we should have to live in a country where legally exercising your rights with the police could get you killed. I think the cops should be held to a higher standard.
8/31/2014 7:51 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 7:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/31/2014 7:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 7:02:00 PM (view original):
The consequences need to fall on police for overreacting. They have a choice too.
The consequences are sorted out in court... That's how it works. There are already consequences for police negligence. Cops get terminated, suspended, demoted, or do jail time. Happens all the time.

If you want to argue with a cop that's your prerogative... I'm certainly not, especially if I am in the right because if I'm dead it doesn't really matter, does it?
I don't think we should have to live in a country where legally exercising your rights with the police could get you killed. I think the cops should be held to a higher standard.
And they are held to a higher standard by many people (maybe not you). Understand not all cops are equal. Some suck, some are complacent, some are awesome at what they do, others are ********. They are human, they have emotions, and they make mistakes. Just like at your employer. Difference is every cop carries a gun... So anytime you legally want to exercise anything you should think twice.... Being right at the wrong time is being wrong. Arguing with a cop is stupid. There is a time and a place.
8/31/2014 8:00 PM
Yep.  The man with the gun, and the authority to use it, should be dealt with properly.
8/31/2014 8:02 PM
Posted by moy23 on 8/31/2014 8:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 7:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/31/2014 7:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 7:02:00 PM (view original):
The consequences need to fall on police for overreacting. They have a choice too.
The consequences are sorted out in court... That's how it works. There are already consequences for police negligence. Cops get terminated, suspended, demoted, or do jail time. Happens all the time.

If you want to argue with a cop that's your prerogative... I'm certainly not, especially if I am in the right because if I'm dead it doesn't really matter, does it?
I don't think we should have to live in a country where legally exercising your rights with the police could get you killed. I think the cops should be held to a higher standard.
And they are held to a higher standard by many people (maybe not you). Understand not all cops are equal. Some suck, some are complacent, some are awesome at what they do, others are ********. They are human, they have emotions, and they make mistakes. Just like at your employer. Difference is every cop carries a gun... So anytime you legally want to exercise anything you should think twice.... Being right at the wrong time is being wrong. Arguing with a cop is stupid. There is a time and a place.
And I'm saying we should blame the cop, not the guy who was in the right.
8/31/2014 8:12 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 8:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/31/2014 8:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 7:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/31/2014 7:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 7:02:00 PM (view original):
The consequences need to fall on police for overreacting. They have a choice too.
The consequences are sorted out in court... That's how it works. There are already consequences for police negligence. Cops get terminated, suspended, demoted, or do jail time. Happens all the time.

If you want to argue with a cop that's your prerogative... I'm certainly not, especially if I am in the right because if I'm dead it doesn't really matter, does it?
I don't think we should have to live in a country where legally exercising your rights with the police could get you killed. I think the cops should be held to a higher standard.
And they are held to a higher standard by many people (maybe not you). Understand not all cops are equal. Some suck, some are complacent, some are awesome at what they do, others are ********. They are human, they have emotions, and they make mistakes. Just like at your employer. Difference is every cop carries a gun... So anytime you legally want to exercise anything you should think twice.... Being right at the wrong time is being wrong. Arguing with a cop is stupid. There is a time and a place.
And I'm saying we should blame the cop, not the guy who was in the right.
So the blame needs to be exclusive to one party? That seems a bit myopic.
8/31/2014 8:19 PM
The blame needs to go to whoever was in the wrong.
8/31/2014 8:51 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 8:51:00 PM (view original):
The blame needs to go to whoever was in the wrong.
Great
Absolutely
None of us is saying take away our rights
None of us is saying a cop can't be wrong

But

Tilting at windmills with a guy carrying a gun is stupid

You wouldn't do it to some dude in a bar you know is conceal carrying
Why are you gonna do it with a cop!?
8/31/2014 8:55 PM
As part of the American Civil Liberties Union’s recent report on police militarization, the Massachusetts chapter of the organization sent open records requests to SWAT teams across that state. It received an interesting response.

As it turns out, a number of SWAT teams in the Bay State are operated by what are called law enforcement councils, or LECs. These LECs are funded by several police agencies in a given geographic area and overseen by an executive board, which is usually made up of police chiefs from member police departments. In 2012, for example, the Tewksbury Police Department paid about $4,600 in annual membership dues to the North Eastern Massachusetts Law Enforcement Council, or NEMLEC. (See page 36 of linked PDF.) That LEC has about 50 member agencies. In addition to operating a regional SWAT team, the LECs also facilitate technology and information sharing and oversee other specialized units, such as crime scene investigators and computer crime specialists.

Some of these LECs have also apparently incorporated as 501(c)(3) organizations. And it’s here that we run into problems. According to the ACLU, the LECs are claiming that the 501(c)(3) status means that they’re private corporations, not government agencies. And therefore, they say they’re immune from open records requests. Let’s be clear. These agencies oversee police activities. They employ cops who carry guns, wear badges, collect paychecks provided by taxpayers and have the power to detain, arrest, injure and kill. They operate SWAT teams, which conduct raids on private residences. And yet they say that because they’ve incorporated, they’re immune to Massachusetts open records laws. The state’s residents aren’t permitted to know how often the SWAT teams are used, what they’re used for, what sort of training they get or who they’re primarily used against.

Approximately 240 of the 351 police departments in Massachusetts belong to an LEC. While set up as “corporations,” LECs are funded by local and federal taxpayer money, are composed exclusively of public police officers and sheriffs, and carry out traditional law enforcement functions through specialized units such as SWAT teams . . .

Due to the weakness of Massachusetts public records law and the culture of secrecy that has infected local police departments and Law Enforcement Councils, procuring empirical records from police departments and regional SWAT teams in Massachusetts about police militarization was universally difficult and, in most instances, impossible . . .

Police departments and regional SWAT teams are public institutions, working with public money, meant to protect and serve the public’s interest. If these institutions do not maintain and make public comprehensive and comprehensible documents pertaining to their operations and tactics, the people cannot judge whether officials are acting appropriately or make needed policy changes when problems arise . . .

Hiding behind the argument that they are private corporations not subject to the public records laws, the LECs have refused to provide documents regarding their SWAT team policies and procedures. They have also failed to disclose anything about their operations, including how many raids they have executed or for what purpose . . .

METROLEC, one of the largest of the law enforcement councils covering the metropolitan Boston area, operates a range of specialized resources, including a Canine Unit, Computer Crimes Unit, Crisis Negotiation Team, Mobile Operations Motorcycle Unit, and Regional Response Team, in addition to its SWAT force. The organization maintains its own BearCat armored vehicle, as well as a $700,000 state of the art command and control post. In 2012, METROLEC reportedly used its BearCat 26 times, mostly for drug busts, and applied to the Federal Aviation Administration to obtain a drone license.

The North Eastern Massachusetts Law Enforcement Council (NEMLEC) similarly operates a SWAT team, as well as a Computer Crime Unit, Motorcycle Unit, School Threat Assessment & Response System, and Regional Communications and Incident Management Assistance Team. Its SWAT team members are trained and equipped to “deal with active shooters, armed barricaded subjects, hostage takers and terrorists,” and they dress in military-style gear with the words “NEMLEC SWAT” emblazoned on their uniforms. Given this training, it is not surprising that the NEMLEC SWAT team has over the past decade led numerous operations that involved armored vehicles, flash-bang devices, and automatic weapons.
8/31/2014 9:06 PM
Being right and dead is not a win.

Hell, being right and tased is not a win. 

Just show the ******* ******* your ID if he asks.   Even if he's not polite.

****.  It's called "common sense". 
8/31/2014 9:08 PM
Posted by cobra on 8/31/2014 8:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 8:51:00 PM (view original):
The blame needs to go to whoever was in the wrong.
Great
Absolutely
None of us is saying take away our rights
None of us is saying a cop can't be wrong

But

Tilting at windmills with a guy carrying a gun is stupid

You wouldn't do it to some dude in a bar you know is conceal carrying
Why are you gonna do it with a cop!?
Because cops get held to a higher standard than "random guy in bar."
8/31/2014 9:15 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/31/2014 9:08:00 PM (view original):
Being right and dead is not a win.

Hell, being right and tased is not a win. 

Just show the ******* ******* your ID if he asks.   Even if he's not polite.

****.  It's called "common sense". 
Just don't tase a guy if he doesn't deserve it. It's called common sense.
8/31/2014 9:16 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 9:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/31/2014 9:08:00 PM (view original):
Being right and dead is not a win.

Hell, being right and tased is not a win. 

Just show the ******* ******* your ID if he asks.   Even if he's not polite.

****.  It's called "common sense". 
Just don't tase a guy if he doesn't deserve it. It's called common sense.
Don't mouth off to an armed officer of the law, unless you're willing to get tased just to prove your point.
9/1/2014 1:51 AM
You control the actions of one person.  You.   Don't count on the other guy to have common sense.
9/1/2014 7:32 AM
Posted by toddcommish on 9/1/2014 1:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 9:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/31/2014 9:08:00 PM (view original):
Being right and dead is not a win.

Hell, being right and tased is not a win. 

Just show the ******* ******* your ID if he asks.   Even if he's not polite.

****.  It's called "common sense". 
Just don't tase a guy if he doesn't deserve it. It's called common sense.
Don't mouth off to an armed officer of the law, unless you're willing to get tased just to prove your point.
This is my point. The cops are the ones we should expect to have self control in this situation. They are the professionals.
9/1/2014 10:41 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 9/1/2014 10:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 9/1/2014 1:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/31/2014 9:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/31/2014 9:08:00 PM (view original):
Being right and dead is not a win.

Hell, being right and tased is not a win. 

Just show the ******* ******* your ID if he asks.   Even if he's not polite.

****.  It's called "common sense". 
Just don't tase a guy if he doesn't deserve it. It's called common sense.
Don't mouth off to an armed officer of the law, unless you're willing to get tased just to prove your point.
This is my point. The cops are the ones we should expect to have self control in this situation. They are the professionals.
And we do expect them to have self control....

I'm just not willing to bet my life that ALL cops have self control. I'm pretty sure its an impossibility that EVERY cop hired will exhibit self control during every minute they are on the job. They are human too.

Politicians, Pro Athletes, College Professors, and Doctors are all held to a higher standard yet there are many instances where individuals used their position for personal gain, beat their girlfriends, had affairs with students, or scammed insurance.

If a cop loses their self-control there are consequences, as in any other career. It may cost them a suspension, termination, or even jail time. What we are all saying is 'why poke the bear?' .... Cops have guns, you don't. Comply now rather than the chance that YOU instigate a situation which will cause you more physical harm than them.
9/1/2014 11:00 AM (edited)
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Ferguson Police should be outlawed Topic

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