Thought we might put a place for comments separate from the team evals, makes it easier to read both. I like the idea of this format, please let me know if you agree.


ok, I am coming to believe that Stockton may be the best overall PG value in the set. Think of him as Lebron without the boards, 60%efg, 42% assists, 80 defense AND he is 7.7 million for 2900 minutes. This comes in as 1.5 mil less than the other 1st round PG's, which is a huge gift to your bench players.

Curious about everyone else's PG reasoning.

Stockton vs. Paul:
Assist and steal % about the same. Paul has more rebounds, Stockton a much better efg% with more threes, 90 vs 80 defense is (probably) minimal, and Stockton is 1.5 million less for 200 less minutes. I don't give a crap about a PG's creb, but I do care about the extra bench $$$$'s.

Ok....Stockton vs Paul:

Yes, Stockton shoots 60% to CP's 52 but at tier 5, (LeBron shoots 60% at tier 2, btw), Paul's 52 isn't great at 27.8 usage but it's 10+more usage points I'm not looking for (or paying for) later
Assists, Stockton +3
Creb: CP3 +6
Def: CP3 +10, (90 vs 80)
Fouls, Steals, and Blks are about the same
Stockton gives more 3pm, Paul more Fta
TOV%: Stockton 22.89, Paul 13.45!!

So...1.5m gets you more usage, much lower TOV%, better defense and an addt'l 2+ mins/gm....

IMO Curry is on the borderline of the (CP3/Stockton/undrafted showtime player) elite PG conversation in this league.

Note for Vance, for some reason I'm a chump owner in the dh$52 league, the extra cap space just gets me in trouble because it allows me to test failed theory after failed theory about the sim. But in this league I'm a perennial title contender more often than not.

The league that will end tonight or tomorrow will be my 9th, and this was my 4th finals appearance. IMO the key difference between the leagues is that here virtually ever minute you select for your roster will get used (and then some). ALL 12 players matter and HAVE to see court time for a successful team. Every draft decision and all five reserves are critical decisions, and because Wilt takes so much cap space he does not = auto contender. Hence player value here has significant variance from higher cap leagues. Making the PG conversation more unique here.

I don't know why I chose to pick 5th. Picking towards the end of round 1 (and beginning of round 6) is way better in this league.

The last two ODL's have been a disaster for me so I just don't care where I pick. I do like the middle though as you pick about the same time every day and the same number of players go by.

Paul > Stockton. The tov%, usg% and D are much more valuable to me.

Kidd is a great value in the lower cap ODL. I think he's my top PG for that reason. Really frees you up to fill your roster out and his def, 3pt, ast and reb are all stellar.

I think he is almost must have if you are picking 24-25, and jh did a great job getting him 26.

Also love bandits turn of DrJ and Russell, two guys who sometimes go in the top 20.

Kidd in the second is a great pick no doubt. He is a seriously high value low cap player.

btw, Paul's high usage and (admitted good for a PG) only okish EFG% strike me as an argument against his going so early.

Posted by theyard2 on 9/3/2014 6:37:00 PM (view original):
Ok....Stockton vs Paul:

Yes, Stockton shoots 60% to CP's 52 but at tier 5, (LeBron shoots 60% at tier 2, btw), Paul's 52 isn't great at 27.8 usage but it's 10+more usage points I'm not looking for (or paying for) later
Assists, Stockton +3
Creb: CP3 +6
Def: CP3 +10, (90 vs 80)
Fouls, Steals, and Blks are about the same
Stockton gives more 3pm, Paul more Fta
TOV%: Stockton 22.89, Paul 13.45!!

So...1.5m gets you more usage, much lower TOV%, better defense and an addt'l 2+ mins/gm....

to me the usage and low TO's give CP the slight edge.  Rebounds don't hurt either.

Gilmore and Pippen - two guys I've almost never used, certainly not in ODL.  It's usually at this point I run into a $$$ problem, hopefully can avoid that this time.

"Just personal opinion, Kobe took me to the finals in ODL one year but I picked him in the late 3rd round. I just don't think he's worth a second round pick but it doesn't mean you can't win with him..: -Tough to say where Kobe ranks, he is so expensive. He has gone in the 1st before.

IMO, Zo should be a 1st rounder, and consistently so, but I knew I could get him in the second. Suspect I could get him in the 3rd but didn't want to risk it. Fits with Stockton anyway.

Posted by robocoach on 9/5/2014 7:12:00 AM (view original):
"Just personal opinion, Kobe took me to the finals in ODL one year but I picked him in the late 3rd round. I just don't think he's worth a second round pick but it doesn't mean you can't win with him..: -Tough to say where Kobe ranks, he is so expensive. He has gone in the 1st before.

IMO, Zo should be a 1st rounder, and consistently so, but I knew I could get him in the second. Suspect I could get him in the 3rd but didn't want to risk it. Fits with Stockton anyway.

I don't know if Zo is a first rounder.  Great scoring and D but just doesn't have the rebounding but completely agree he should be an early to mid 2nd rounder

I've had Kobe in the ODL finals twice here, but both times be was a 3rd round pick. The key is that there is a shortlist of what you need to make a Kobe team a winner and the players on that short list are generally gone by the end of the second round. Hence, by the 3rd round there are no pieces of the puzzle left that you need to put with Kobe to have a contending squad.

Think of it in terms of an MLB game. Taking Kobe too early is like bringing in your closer in an MLB game with two out and two on base in the 5th inning of a 1-0 game. Sure the closer may get you out of the jam, but because you used him in the 5th inning he won't be around for the 9th when you need him the most.

EVERY minute you draft here is critical, this league is like a 24-person Chess match. Think of it in terms of not only the fact that you took Kobe but also what you gave up to get him. All the tradeoffs come into play, from the salary you have to use on a guy to which players you passed on to get him. This league more than any other requires you to think about your entire draft as a whole with each individual decision.

Notes on CREB (my division anyway):



Team.......................Sim rebounds......... Opponents rebounds .........Actual rebounds
Brianna ........... 4266 .......... 4087 ...... 4471
Bat ............ 4056 ........... 4015 ........ 5231
Round Mound .. 4318 ............... 4329 ....... 4180
odds .......... 3911 .................. 4522 (wow) ....... 3753
Army ...... 4095 ........... 4329 ........ 4179
Malleus ......... 3862 ............ 4096 .......... 4534



With my CREB, I was 700 rebounds short for the second ODL in a row. So, thanks a bunch Simmy. The more I look at this, the more it looks like a bunch of random crap- rebounds for has two outliers, me and Bato out of Hell; rebounds against has one outlier, Against the Odds. So pound that Creb% everybody, because it may mean jack ****.