Posted by superrobb420 on 2/18/2015 8:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by robocoach on 2/12/2015 8:49:00 PM (view original):
Makes you appreciate how un-special the Bulls championships were, since the league basically sucked bear balls throughout the 90's. (Note the "Archer" reference ahead of the show.)

Whenever people cite Jordan's 6 rings as evidence of him being the best ever, I always ask them who the second best perimeter guy was in the 90s. Then after they say Pippen, I ask who was third. Richmond? Miller? Drexler? Mullin?

Richmond? Miller? Drexler? Mullin?....all hall of famers

and who was the 2nd best pg in the 80s after magic? isaiah(who beat him for a title - twice almost) and then who? mo cheeks?

and sure...sf was pretty stacked in the 80s after bird...but they were all score first guys who played no d...kinda like the sgs of the 90s

90s may suck in the sim because of the lack of offense...but i wouldnt discount them in real life...defense counts too..and they didnt play it in the 80s

btw..i was born in 84...grew up on 90s bball...so i may be a bit biased here...but i cringe every time i have to hear about the glorious 80s and how it was sooooo much better than the 90s...ive watched a lot of games from the 80s and the defense is laughable...magic and bird(the best players of the decade) had to be hidden by their teams on defense...meanwhile jordan and pippen caused as much damage on defense as they did offesne

I lived and loved both decades - but he 90s were a far cry from the 80's - sorry dh555 -

A major complaint I have is the NBA turning into a marketing machine
instead of a even handed neutral basketball league that valued competition instead of money.
The schtick (sp?) got to be more like fake pro wrestling than a real sport.


Stern and most GM's spent the decade cashing in on the
80's Celtics Lakers Sixers TEAMS and building market share and advertising dollars-
shameful hucksters

the NBA got away from teams and put all the emphasis on the individual-
even the advertising was: "tonight its Sean Kemp vs. fill in the blank" instead of team x vs team y - and the quality of play suffered.

and then it was the whole "NEXT JORDAN" onslaught.....

mid 80s lakers vs rodman/kukoc bulls

magic gets the best perimeter defender ever in his grill all game and kareem gets doubled like hes never seen before(not enough spacing to keep the bulls long rangy defenders away from the paint)

magic isnt lurking in the paint waiting to grab drebs and start showtime because hes out on the perimeter guarding harper/kerr/kukoc - whoever they are hiding him on

who guards mj? b scott? hah!

id still probably take the lakers in the series...but its crazy to think its not up for debate

Posted by cmcafeeky on 2/18/2015 12:43:00 PM (view original):
I lived and loved both decades - but he 90s were a far cry from the 80's - sorry dh555 -

A major complaint I have is the NBA turning into a marketing machine
instead of a even handed neutral basketball league that valued competition instead of money.
The schtick (sp?) got to be more like fake pro wrestling than a real sport.


Stern and most GM's spent the decade cashing in on the
80's Celtics Lakers Sixers TEAMS and building market share and advertising dollars-
shameful hucksters

the NBA got away from teams and put all the emphasis on the individual-
even the advertising was: "tonight its Sean Kemp vs. fill in the blank" instead of team x vs team y - and the quality of play suffered.

and then it was the whole "NEXT JORDAN" onslaught.....

haha...oh and magic/bird wasnt advertised?...the nba was saved because of that

greed by the PLAYERS and the owners was bound to happen...human nature...but who cares about how its marketed...what matters is what happens on the court...look at last years champion..that was greatest example of TEAM play in nba history

your the kind of guy who probably stops liking a band because one of their songs gets used for a commercial

how about Michael Cooper guarding him?
and who's going to guard James Worthy?
and would Will Purdue Luc Longley really contest the skyhook?

(DAMN - I hate those Laker teams - this is some type of Jedi mind trick to pull me into extolling the virtues of Showtime -
stop it dh555- please stop it...)

I think Jerry Krause did a masterful job putting the right pieces together as support for MJ -
most GMs are chasing the vertical leap and athleticism instead of real basketball players - and it shows

I agree with you about the Spurs..

my point about marketing is that it got (gets) in front of being even handed by the league sometimes (I think)
Its scary for the talking heads to start talking about how it helps the league to have New York or LA in the finals instead of team X....

And I remember vividly the Sacramento hosing to favor Shaq Kobe and LA....
Im not a conspiracy theorist, but geeeez the NBA has flirted with some sketchy results on occasion.
(Ewing and the frozen draft card anyone)

I know Id be worried IF Stern was the Commisioner of my fantasy football league

good stuff DH555 - I don't get good basketball rhetoric at work so I appreciate the debate

dh555:

you will lose

I must break you

if he dies he dies

Posted by cmcafeeky on 2/18/2015 1:05:00 PM (view original):
how about Michael Cooper guarding him?
and who's going to guard James Worthy?
and would Will Purdue Luc Longley really contest the skyhook?

(DAMN - I hate those Laker teams - this is some type of Jedi mind trick to pull me into extolling the virtues of Showtime -
stop it dh555- please stop it...)

I think Jerry Krause did a masterful job putting the right pieces together as support for MJ -
most GMs are chasing the vertical leap and athleticism instead of real basketball players - and it shows

I agree with you about the Spurs..

my point about marketing is that it got (gets) in front of being even handed by the league sometimes (I think)
Its scary for the talking heads to start talking about how it helps the league to have New York or LA in the finals instead of team X....

And I remember vividly the Sacramento hosing to favor Shaq Kobe and LA....
Im not a conspiracy theorist, but geeeez the NBA has flirted with some sketchy results on occasion.
(Ewing and the frozen draft card anyone)

I know Id be worried IF Stern was the Commisioner of my fantasy football league

ahhh i forgot about cooper...his heavy mins to guard mj would cost them the scoring of scott tho....unless both teams just went small(magic/scott/cooper/worthy/kareem vs harper/mj/pippen/kukoc/rodman)...that would be interesting...watching rodman annoy the hell out of kareem and desperately trying to keep him from getting a clean post catch would be worth the price of admission right there

its a shame we dont have a way to just simulate this type of game to get an answer.....wait a sec.....

nope..nevermind...cant even make the lakers an uptempo team in sim-matchup....thanks wis

Posted by cmcafeeky on 2/18/2015 1:04:00 PM (view original):
good stuff DH555 - I don't get good basketball rhetoric at work so I appreciate the debate

likewise

I think a talent dip existed in the 90's. In the late 70's, all the ABA players flooded in. After around 2000, more European and College undergrads flooded in. In between, not so exciting. Since the 70's (my historical memory)"


1. The NFL sucks pond scum. It is embarrassing how bad their quality of product is today. (I almost typed QOS ....kill me now).
2. The NBA has cycled good and bad, but I believe is worse now because only European players can hit an open 12 footer, or FTA's for that matter
3. MLB is a rock .Steroids aside, MLB'ers are so incredibly good at what they do. No big Red machine though.
4. NHL is the one pro sport to get VASTLY better on the field of play (or rink of ice as it were). Too bad they don't have a decent TV contract to see that.

BTW is Mitch Richmond really in the HOF? Because that is a ******* joke if he is.

Posted by dh555 on 2/18/2015 12:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by superrobb420 on 2/18/2015 8:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by robocoach on 2/12/2015 8:49:00 PM (view original):
Makes you appreciate how un-special the Bulls championships were, since the league basically sucked bear balls throughout the 90's. (Note the "Archer" reference ahead of the show.)

Whenever people cite Jordan's 6 rings as evidence of him being the best ever, I always ask them who the second best perimeter guy was in the 90s. Then after they say Pippen, I ask who was third. Richmond? Miller? Drexler? Mullin?

Richmond? Miller? Drexler? Mullin?....all hall of famers

and who was the 2nd best pg in the 80s after magic? isaiah(who beat him for a title - twice almost) and then who? mo cheeks?

and sure...sf was pretty stacked in the 80s after bird...but they were all score first guys who played no d...kinda like the sgs of the 90s

90s may suck in the sim because of the lack of offense...but i wouldnt discount them in real life...defense counts too..and they didnt play it in the 80s

btw..i was born in 84...grew up on 90s bball...so i may be a bit biased here...but i cringe every time i have to hear about the glorious 80s and how it was sooooo much better than the 90s...ive watched a lot of games from the 80s and the defense is laughable...magic and bird(the best players of the decade) had to be hidden by their teams on defense...meanwhile jordan and pippen caused as much damage on defense as they did offesne

I think that's more of people agreeing to say that those guys were good because we have all agreed that the 90s were some pantheon of great basketball. Joe Johnson has more ASG appearances than Reggie Miller, Chris Mullin, and Richmond. Will he make the hall of fame? Maybe. But I doubt anyone will list him among the great wings of the 00s.

90s defense is overrated as well. Hand check rules made it easy to get over aggressive and the illegal defense rules made the weak side zone trap a myth. Basically, if you go watch those old games and see Penny Hardaway carve up the Bulls and ask yourself why no one is rotating to help, it's because it wasn't invented yet. I was born around the same time as you. I just feel like the sport has gotten better over the years.

I think the players have certainly gotten more skilled at taller heights -
trying to say that the taller guys are much more skilled than the past -

I'll ask again, and this time type it correctly:

"Does anyone want to try their hand at avals?"

I'm not busy so I'll write something. Not really a eval, someone with more experience should do those.