Posted by burnsy483 on 2/26/2015 9:23:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2015 9:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 2/26/2015 9:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2015 9:04:00 AM (view original):
Well, a walk is not a ball in play.    And that's better than an out on a ball in play 99% of the time.

I'm sorry, I'll rephrase. A ball in play is better than striking out.

Well, a double play is a ball in play.   That's not better than striking out.

OK, so he shouldn't care about the Ks, then. Since you think a ball in play isn't better than striking out.

Did I say that, burnsyluck?    Maybe you should go back and re-read the thread.    You can skip the 2 hour back and forth between taint/BL.   I did.  Well, I skipped half of it.

Posted by burnsy483 on 2/26/2015 9:28:00 AM (view original):

No correlation to strikeouts and runs scored, historically.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2015 9:27:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 2/26/2015 9:23:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2015 9:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 2/26/2015 9:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2015 9:04:00 AM (view original):
Well, a walk is not a ball in play.    And that's better than an out on a ball in play 99% of the time.

I'm sorry, I'll rephrase. A ball in play is better than striking out.

Well, a double play is a ball in play.   That's not better than striking out.

OK, so he shouldn't care about the Ks, then. Since you think a ball in play isn't better than striking out.

Did I say that, burnsyluck?    Maybe you should go back and re-read the thread.    You can skip the 2 hour back and forth between taint/BL.   I did.  Well, I skipped half of it.

I said putting a ball in play is better than striking out, and you argued with me. What kind of response did you expect? I thought we're just ******* around now.

That's 1950 to 2002.   Game might have been a little different in 1958.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/25/2015 7:56:00 PM (view original):
I struggled thru that long-winded post, you know I hate that, but I think you pretty much nailed it.    It's largely situational. 

And, because Trout thinks he's need to cut his strikeouts down, I'm thinking he thinks he was less useful to the team because of WHEN he whiffed.   And he'd know better than I because I'm not analyzing his AB. 

This.

Yea, there was an emphasis on "just put the ball in play"  in 1958, which we can see might have been a little silly.

I don't expect there to be much of a difference from 2002-2014, but I'll see what I can find.

I'll summarize.   By "advanced metrics", like OPS+ and oWAR, Trout has been the same hitter for the last 3 years.   Yet he believes he can be more effective if he strikes out less.   

Maybe he doesn't know.   If one of you "advanced metrics" would like to call him and say "Dude, you've been equally effective in the last 3 seasons, don't worry about whiffing", please do so.   But he thinks he needs to strike out less.   

I trust his judgement over yours.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2015 9:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/25/2015 7:56:00 PM (view original):
I struggled thru that long-winded post, you know I hate that, but I think you pretty much nailed it.    It's largely situational. 

And, because Trout thinks he's need to cut his strikeouts down, I'm thinking he thinks he was less useful to the team because of WHEN he whiffed.   And he'd know better than I because I'm not analyzing his AB. 

This.

His batting average and OBP fell. He probably feels it was because of the strikeouts and a lack of plate discipline. That's what I got out of it. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2015 9:36:00 AM (view original):
I'll summarize.   By "advanced metrics", like OPS+ and oWAR, Trout has been the same hitter for the last 3 years.   Yet he believes he can be more effective if he strikes out less.   

Maybe he doesn't know.   If one of you "advanced metrics" would like to call him and say "Dude, you've been equally effective in the last 3 seasons, don't worry about whiffing", please do so.   But he thinks he needs to strike out less.   

I trust his judgement over yours.

I don't disagree that he probably struck out too much last year. 30% more Ks in 2014 than he usually gets. He wasn't as productive as he was the previous 2 years. If he says his plate discipline wasn't as good, and he needs to fix that this year, that makes a lot of sense.

Using "advanced metrics", he was just as productive as he was in the previous two seasons. 

Obviously, he thinks striking out less would make him more productive.

I've said this before, but 90% of this thread has been said before, so I don't care repeating myself. There are plenty of guys now who strike out way too much, and don't seem to understand, or care, about situational hitting. I see it with Granderson, as a Mets fan. Adam Jones and Austin Jackson also come to mind. Don't change your swing or mindset with 2 strikes. There is such a thing as "trying to hit a ball hard the other way" as a righty when there's a man on 2nd and no outs. All of that is true, and I don't disagree part of the game is lacking that mindset a little bit now.

That said, some of the best hitters in the game strike out a lot, because they have the ability to swing very hard, and hit a baseball very hard. Having a guy as talented as Trout, or any elite hitter who strikes out 125+ times a year, choke up and focus solely on putting the ball in play with a man on third and less than 2 outs is doing a disservice to your team. There's a proper in between somewhere. But I don't disagree that there are too many players on the Adam Jones side than the Placido Polanco side. But if Trout focused on striking out no more than, 100 times, for example, I would guess he would have a much less productive year overall, as his slugging numbers would fall.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2015 9:50:00 AM (view original):
Using "advanced metrics", he was just as productive as he was in the previous two seasons. 

Obviously, he thinks striking out less would make him more productive.

You're looking at stats that compare him to others in 2014. Offense fell overall in the American League from 2013 to 2014. I'm comparing him to himself in the years prior. He had more productive seasons in 2012 and 2013.

Posted by burnsy483 on 2/26/2015 10:00:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2015 9:50:00 AM (view original):
Using "advanced metrics", he was just as productive as he was in the previous two seasons. 

Obviously, he thinks striking out less would make him more productive.

You're looking at stats that compare him to others in 2014. Offense fell overall in the American League from 2013 to 2014. I'm comparing him to himself in the years prior. He had more productive seasons in 2012 and 2013.

No, I'm looking at TROUT'S OPS+ and oWAR(because dWAR is bullshit and has nothing to do with striking out).    It's essentially the same over the last three seasons.    

OPS+ and oWAR are comparison stats. You can't get those stats without comparing him to other players.

If I have an OPS of 1.000 in my rec league, what's my OPS+?