Vote for Franchise Four Topic

Got_Worms
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Wow I didn't expect to generate this much discussion! I think they should have limited it to the current version of each franchise. The Nationals have all Expos except for Ryan Zimmerman!
4/9/2015 5:50 PM
dahsdebater
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/9/2015 3:06:00 PM (view original):
FWIW, I think it's reasonably important that a somewhat recent player be on the list.    Otherwise, we just sound like a bunch of old men yammering on about how everything was better "back in the day".    All the best, or most impactful, players weren't from 1926.    Truth is, I didn't want to list Ruth AND Gehrig with Mantle/Jeter.   But, honestly, any Yankee "best" list that doesn't include Gehrig is probably uber-retarded.  
I could certainly argue that any list that includes Jeter over DiMaggio is borderline retarded.
4/9/2015 6:00 PM
MikeT23
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I like it better when you're long-winded.   That way I can ignore you much more easily, ********.

Make your argument.
4/9/2015 6:50 PM
dahsdebater
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Are you serious?  Jeter was arguably the best player in baseball in exactly 1999, and there's really no other time there's a strong argument for him in the top 5.  I don't think one year really puts you in the argument for best player in the world, so realistically, I don't think he was ever truly in that discussion.  Particularly given that, in his prime, A-Rod was also playing SS and doing it better.  Realistically speaking, Jeter was the best player on a balanced team.  The original golden age of the Yankees, from the '20s through the '60s, was littered with superstars.  For most of those 5 decades, one of Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, or DiMaggio was arguably the best player in the game.  Some of the Mantle/DiMaggio teams had weaknesses, and even the Murderer's Row team of the late '20s had less than ideal pitching, but the big stars were huge.  The second golden age of the Yankees, in the '90s and early '00s, was all about balance.  The only time they had a guy who was seriously in the argument for best player on the planet was when they first signed A-Rod, and everybody hates him now so he's clearly not going to compete in fan-polling based lists of this nature.  Jeter just wasn't the best player, or as I said, seriously in the argument for top 5.  He was just the best player on a very good, very well-balanced team.

DiMaggio was probably the 2nd-best player in baseball for most of his career.  At least the 2nd-best position player.  Some of the career numbers, in the counting stats, can be underwhelming, but that's what happens when you give up 3 years in the very heart of your prime to go to war.  Speaking of WAR, I think we both agree it's imperfect, but IIRC DiMaggio is actually ahead of Jeter in career WAR in spite of playing only a little over half as much.  I don't know if I buy that DiMaggio had the more valuable career, but he was clearly the better player, and I think that's more what this list is driving at.

IIRC, DiMaggio's career OPS+ is about 40 points better than Jeter's.  That's absolutely astronomical.
4/9/2015 7:41 PM
MikeT23
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Jesus ******* Christ, you windbag.  Zero ******* chance I read three words of that.

"IMPACTFUL" is the key word.     Try again, you dumb *****.

4/9/2015 9:06 PM
dahsdebater
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In what way was Jeter more impactful than DiMaggio?
4/9/2015 9:08 PM
MikeT23
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I assumed you were too stupid to understand so I stuck around so I could explain it to you.

Let me introduce you to a period called 1982 to 1994.     We'll call it "The years the Yanks couldn't make the playoffs."   

As I seek another such period in Yankee history, I find one.   We'll call it "Formation of the Yankees til Mr. Ruth revolutionizes baseball."

The Yanks went from irrelevant to the biggest thing in baseball both times.    That's called "impactful".   However, unlike the end of Ruth's career, it certainly appears that the Yanks will become irrelevant for years to come.   DiMaggio joined the biggest thing going, had a relatively short career(albeit military service interuppted it) and, if not for Marilyn Monroe and Mr. Coffee, would just be considered another great Yankee.   

4/9/2015 9:22 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/9/2015 3:06:00 PM (view original):
FWIW, I think it's reasonably important that a somewhat recent player be on the list.    Otherwise, we just sound like a bunch of old men yammering on about how everything was better "back in the day".    All the best, or most impactful, players weren't from 1926.    Truth is, I didn't want to list Ruth AND Gehrig with Mantle/Jeter.   But, honestly, any Yankee "best" list that doesn't include Gehrig is probably uber-retarded.  
I'll expand on this while I'm around.

Look at other sports.  When you talk "best ever", other sports' lists are littered with "modern day" players.   Baseball always harkens back to the days of yore.   Is it any wonder why young people aren't interested in baseball?
4/9/2015 9:40 PM
dahsdebater
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/9/2015 9:22:00 PM (view original):
I assumed you were too stupid to understand so I stuck around so I could explain it to you.

Let me introduce you to a period called 1982 to 1994.     We'll call it "The years the Yanks couldn't make the playoffs."   

As I seek another such period in Yankee history, I find one.   We'll call it "Formation of the Yankees til Mr. Ruth revolutionizes baseball."

The Yanks went from irrelevant to the biggest thing in baseball both times.    That's called "impactful".   However, unlike the end of Ruth's career, it certainly appears that the Yanks will become irrelevant for years to come.   DiMaggio joined the biggest thing going, had a relatively short career(albeit military service interuppted it) and, if not for Marilyn Monroe and Mr. Coffee, would just be considered another great Yankee.   

Jeter is nothing like solely responsible for the success of the Yankees.  When they were winning WS, they were blowing away the rest of the league in team payroll, and when the league caught up, they stopped winning, even with Jeter still there and still hitting.

DiMaggio is tied for 22nd all time in OPS+ in spite of giving up his prime to military service.  Typically the age 27-30 seasons are the best - he lost 3 of those 4.

FWIW, the guys he's tied with are Aaron and Ott.  Mays is one point ahead.  Miggy and Frank Robinson are one point behind.  I'm not sure what you mean by "just another great Yankee," but aside from Ruth, Gehrig, and Mantle, no other Yankee could begin to hit with him.  Another grouped with what pack, exactly?  He's lightyears ahead of Yogi, Reggie, Rizzuto, or Jeter.
4/10/2015 1:14 AM
edsortails
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1-did 98green post in this thread? maybe I haven't looked that closely but it seems like about a half a decade since he's been here


2-maybe he's top 5 Red Sox, maybe he isn't, but it seems Wade Boggs deserves to be in the top 8 listed to choose from....you aren't making it as a write in
4/10/2015 6:05 AM
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MikeT23
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Posted by dahsdebater on 4/10/2015 1:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/9/2015 9:22:00 PM (view original):
I assumed you were too stupid to understand so I stuck around so I could explain it to you.

Let me introduce you to a period called 1982 to 1994.     We'll call it "The years the Yanks couldn't make the playoffs."   

As I seek another such period in Yankee history, I find one.   We'll call it "Formation of the Yankees til Mr. Ruth revolutionizes baseball."

The Yanks went from irrelevant to the biggest thing in baseball both times.    That's called "impactful".   However, unlike the end of Ruth's career, it certainly appears that the Yanks will become irrelevant for years to come.   DiMaggio joined the biggest thing going, had a relatively short career(albeit military service interuppted it) and, if not for Marilyn Monroe and Mr. Coffee, would just be considered another great Yankee.   

Jeter is nothing like solely responsible for the success of the Yankees.  When they were winning WS, they were blowing away the rest of the league in team payroll, and when the league caught up, they stopped winning, even with Jeter still there and still hitting.

DiMaggio is tied for 22nd all time in OPS+ in spite of giving up his prime to military service.  Typically the age 27-30 seasons are the best - he lost 3 of those 4.

FWIW, the guys he's tied with are Aaron and Ott.  Mays is one point ahead.  Miggy and Frank Robinson are one point behind.  I'm not sure what you mean by "just another great Yankee," but aside from Ruth, Gehrig, and Mantle, no other Yankee could begin to hit with him.  Another grouped with what pack, exactly?  He's lightyears ahead of Yogi, Reggie, Rizzuto, or Jeter.

Impact, dumbass, impact. 
4/10/2015 6:48 AM
98greenc5
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Posted by edsortails on 4/10/2015 6:05:00 AM (view original):
1-did 98green post in this thread? maybe I haven't looked that closely but it seems like about a half a decade since he's been here


2-maybe he's top 5 Red Sox, maybe he isn't, but it seems Wade Boggs deserves to be in the top 8 listed to choose from....you aren't making it as a write in
I still play HBD (well, just MG), don't post in the forums much
4/10/2015 9:05 AM
MikeT23
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JUST MG!?!?!?!?   WTF!?!?!?!??!
4/10/2015 9:38 AM
98greenc5
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That was intended to caveat down "I play HBD"

It isn't like I'm a huge HBD user, just the one world. It wasn't intended to slight MG as being "just" a world


4/10/2015 10:57 AM
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