Zero Distribution - Hoops Dynasty

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I have a player with zero distro who's taking shots in the flow of the offense. I probably haven't given a player zero distro in 30 seasons, but back then the only shots they took were stick-backs and break-aways. I've played three games and this guy has taken three shots in the normal offense. Twice he's been fouled and once he missed. (He's also had one tap-in.)

Is this a thing that normally happens now, or is this weird?

4/14/2015 2:50 AM

the0nlyis

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I believe it also depends on what you have the rest of your team set at as this makes a difference ex:

15,13,12,8,7,5,2,0

Compared to

3,2,1,0,0,0,0,0

I believe if your doing the 2nd example and only have 3 players a set distro then I believe 0 is more of a "flow" and if the first example he might just be in the right spot at the right time. As distro isn't 100% followed. I'd say reguardless of what distro settings I wouldn't be to alarmed how many minutes is he playing too could be a factor, if he's playing 15 mpg and 1 shot a game would be perfectly normal with a 0 distro.

Hopefully someone can do a better job at confirming

4/14/2015 8:15 AM

llamanunts

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I don't think that's accurate. If you have ALL zeroes then the sim will decide distribution for you, essentially. However, if you have ANY non-zero numbers in there, that's out the window. In the 3,2,1,0 etc. example, the 3 will be slated to take 50% of the shots, the 2 will try for 33% and the 1 will look for around 17%.

Guys with a zero distribution will shoot sometimes because... just because. Somebody is gonna find himself wide open and unable to resist heaving one up, even though he knows damn well that coach doesn't want him shooting, EVER. Different sport, same principle: Brandon Bostick KNEW he wasn't supposed to try to corral that onside kick, but just couldn't stop himself.

There are also just some odds and ends like the tip-in you mentioned, shots to beat the shot clock, and shots the end of a half.

4/14/2015 10:51 AM (edited)

yanks250125

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What if all the 3, 2, 1 guys are on the bench? On court is 0-0-0-0-0

4/14/2015 9:34 AM

hughesjr

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0 is not really 100% 0 .. they still do take SOME shoots, but not a lot.

4/14/2015 10:20 AM

hughesjr

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Posted by yanks250125 on 4/14/2015 9:34:00 AM (view original):
What if all the 3, 2, 1 guys are on the bench? On court is 0-0-0-0-0

And in that case, someone has to shoot, right?

4/14/2015 10:21 AM

jbasnight

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Yes, but that's the only time someone set to zero will, in my experience. I think what llama said above is correct--if there is any player on the floor with a non-zero distro, the player with zero distro won't take any "regular" shots.

4/14/2015 10:27 AM

hughesjr

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Posted by jbasnight on 4/14/2015 10:27:00 AM (view original):
Yes, but that's the only time someone set to zero will, in my experience. I think what llama said above is correct--if there is any player on the floor with a non-zero distro, the player with zero distro won't take any "regular" shots.

That's not true .. this game at the 05:41 point, Anthony Shanklin has been set to 0 distro all season, and he has this:

"Anthony Shanklin misses badly on a jumper from the free throw line"

That is a normal shot and not a Fast Break or rebound.

Here is another example with Shanklin at the 14:37 point. "Anthony Shanklin can't connect on a floater from the left wing"

So, 0 distro guys do take some shoots.

4/14/2015 10:49 AM

llamanunts

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To reiterate something from my post above:

Guys with a zero distribution will shoot sometimes because... just because. Somebody is gonna find himself wide open and unable to resist heaving one up, even though he knows damn well that coach doesn't want him shooting, EVER. Different sport, same principle: Brandon Bostick KNEW he wasn't supposed to try to corral that onside kick, but just couldn't stop himself.

4/14/2015 10:53 AM

jbasnight

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Posted by hughesjr on 4/14/2015 10:50:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jbasnight on 4/14/2015 10:27:00 AM (view original):
Yes, but that's the only time someone set to zero will, in my experience. I think what llama said above is correct--if there is any player on the floor with a non-zero distro, the player with zero distro won't take any "regular" shots.
That's not true .. this game at the 05:41 point, Anthony Shanklin has been set to 0 distro all season, and he has this:

"Anthony Shanklin misses badly on a jumper from the free throw line"

That is a normal shot and not a Fast Break or rebound.

Here is another example with Shanklin at the 14:37 point. "Anthony Shanklin can't connect on a floater from the left wing"

So, 0 distro guys do take some shoots.

Interesting, assuming at least one of the others on the floor had a distro other than zero. I always thought that was not possible. Frankly, as I usually have a "no-offense" guy or two on my teams, it is a little annoying. It also smacks a little of player personalities, which I thought did not exist.

4/14/2015 11:55 AM

jbasnight

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I just sent a ticket about this. I'll post any non-boilerplate reply I get.

4/14/2015 12:05 PM

mikvitu

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Posted by llamanunts on 4/14/2015 10:53:00 AM (view original):
To reiterate something from my post above:

Guys with a zero distribution will shoot sometimes because... just because. Somebody is gonna find himself wide open and unable to resist heaving one up, even though he knows damn well that coach doesn't want him shooting, EVER. Different sport, same principle: Brandon Bostick KNEW he wasn't supposed to try to corral that onside kick, but just couldn't stop himself.

This is the answer.

4/14/2015 1:40 PM

hughesjr

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Posted by mikvitu on 4/14/2015 1:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by llamanunts on 4/14/2015 10:53:00 AM (view original):
To reiterate something from my post above:

Guys with a zero distribution will shoot sometimes because... just because. Somebody is gonna find himself wide open and unable to resist heaving one up, even though he knows damn well that coach doesn't want him shooting, EVER. Different sport, same principle: Brandon Bostick KNEW he wasn't supposed to try to corral that onside kick, but just couldn't stop himself.

This is the answer.

Agreed.

Here are the two distribution entries in the FAQ:

Q: How do the offensive distribution settings work?

A:
The offensive distribution settings allow you to distribute offensive touches to individual players by applying relative weightings. The offensive distribution settings are found on the player game plan page within your office. You can distribute points to each player (100 maximum total points) indicate which players should get more touches in your half-court offense. This only affects who will have plays run for them in your offense based on the defense you are playing against.

Offensive distribution does NOT refer to shots that come from non-halfcourt offense - this includes offensive rebounds and transition baskets.

You can dictate who the offense will run through by allotting players distribution points. So if you have your starting 5 set to 18,18,18,18,18 all players will get a relatively equal number of touches/shots. If 4 backups come into the game, and you're at 18,1,1,1,1 (for example) - the player with the 18 would now be taking 81% (18/22= 81%) of the shots.

These are your ideal distributions - obviously the defense will be able to impact your offense when the game is played via defensive positioning (see above) and double teams (see below).

You can, and should, set your distributions for the 4 possible defenses you can face throughout the season (and even within a single game). Simply select each defense from the dropdown list to enter your settings for that defense. If a team switches defenses during a game, you will automatically switch to the appropriate offensive distribution and 3 pt. frequency settings that you've entered.

NOTE: If you leave all of the distribution points to zero for all players, the engine will determine the frequency at which players will shoot and their frequency of 3 pt. shots. This is not recommended as the computer only looks at your offensive skills - ignoring the opposing team and their defensive style completely.

Q: Why did one of my players take more/less shots than I set in the offensive distribution?

A:
There are several factors that determine how offensive distribution settings translate to shot attempts in a game. First, keep in mind that not every player possession ends up in a shot. The player may also turn the ball over or get fouled.

Also remember that the distribution points are relative to the other 4 players on the court on a given possession. For example if you set four players to a 1 and one player to a 10, he's going to get far more than 10% of the shots while those 5 are on the floor. In fact, he'll get about 71% of the shots (10/14).

Second, you have to look at minutes played, the more minutes he plays, the more shots he'll get so FGA should be looked at on a per minute basis, not on an absolute basis. You also have to factor in offensive rebounds and steals as both can lead to shots that are not part of the normal offensive sets.

You should also look at the play by play to determine how many possessions that particular player was fouled with not resulting foul shots as well as how many possessions led to turnovers. These are all possessions that will not yield FGA.

You also have to look at double-teams. When one or more players are double-teamed, that will lead to (normally) less shots for the double-teamed players and more shots for the non-double-teamed players.

You then need to look at FTA. A player who is fouled does not get charged for a FGA so if you see a player who shot 10 FTA, that's roughly the equivalent of 5 more FGA.

Finally, there is just random chance. On each possession your offensive distribution weightings are evaluated and someone will take the shot based on those numbers, but that is done on a possession by possession basis, which over the course of a season will balance out but may lead to more or less shots in an individual game.

===========================

This line leads me to believe that your + and - setting on defense AND double teaming actually ADJUST the offensive team's Distro settings.

These are your ideal distributions - obviously the defense will be able to impact your offense when the game is played via defensive positioning (see above) and double teams (see below).

===========================

Then there is this:

Finally, there is just random chance. On each possession your offensive distribution weightings are evaluated and someone will take the shot based on those numbers, but that is done on a possession by possession basis, which over the course of a season will balance out but may lead to more or less shots in an individual game.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect that means that things like the offensive player's ability to get open shoot is compared to the defensive player's ability to stop hime from shooting and that if the defensive player "wins" then there has to be a alternative (ie random) shot. And that the best matchup (highest/best differential for offensive player to be able to shoot vs. his defender(s)).

=================

For all of those reasons, I think the game actually:

1. Makes adjustments to the distribution based on Defensive + or - setting and overall defense type and even the match up.

2. If a shot is deemed not taken, a random one can be substituted.

4/14/2015 3:19 PM

gillispie1

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Posted by hughesjr on 4/14/2015 10:50:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jbasnight on 4/14/2015 10:27:00 AM (view original):
Yes, but that's the only time someone set to zero will, in my experience. I think what llama said above is correct--if there is any player on the floor with a non-zero distro, the player with zero distro won't take any "regular" shots.
That's not true .. this game at the 05:41 point, Anthony Shanklin has been set to 0 distro all season, and he has this:

"Anthony Shanklin misses badly on a jumper from the free throw line"

That is a normal shot and not a Fast Break or rebound.

Here is another example with Shanklin at the 14:37 point. "Anthony Shanklin can't connect on a floater from the left wing"

So, 0 distro guys do take some shoots.

how much was left on the shot clock?

i think with a non 0 guy on the floor, the 0s aren't supposed to shoot unless its a tip in, fastbreak, or end of shot clock situation. there may be some outliers though, im not sure. (id also be curious just to be sure that the dude didn't get an offensive rebound right before the shot).

also hughes im not sure its safe to assume from those notes, that its NOT as fastbreak opportunity. i think you have to correlate shot clock as well.

4/15/2015 1:19 AM (edited)

a_in_the_b

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If someone gets an offensive rebound and kicks it out to another player ... Is that part of your normal offensive set? Does it have to be a shot directly off of the offensive rebound? Or does it snap back into the offensive set and distribution numbers immediately after the offensive rebound outback opportunity?

4/15/2015 7:05 AM

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