So who is your GOAT at dh?  Frank Thomas because he's in the HOF, Edgar, Ortiz....

Frank Thomas because he was the best, but it's sort of a silly question I think.  Until the GOAT at DH is at least on par with the guys in the COF spots and at 1B, it's like being the biggest fish in your local pond...

Obviously I was just ******* around but Aaron is a good example of "GOAT" talk.    Dude had 14-15 seasons, until his legs left him, of around 30 doubles, 35 homers and 6-8 triples for good measure.   When not many were doing it.   And where's he gonna fall in GOAT for RF?

3rd, for me.

Posted by dahsdebater on 1/19/2016 10:12:00 PM (view original):
Frank Thomas because he was the best, but it's sort of a silly question I think.  Until the GOAT at DH is at least on par with the guys in the COF spots and at 1B, it's like being the biggest fish in your local pond...

Yep, greatest DH of all time is Bonds. Or Ruth. Or Gehrig. Or whoever.

WAR

Stan Musial – 128.1
Ted Williams – 123.1





no player in the history of sports has had time distort his greatness like Stan the Man

So true.  1815 hits at home - 1815 hits on the road...

Posted by d_rock97 on 1/19/2016 8:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 1/19/2016 7:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 1/19/2016 2:51:00 PM (view original):
Difference between Tigers and Phillies.
1. Miguel Cabrera G.O.A.T.
2. Tigers infield is young (McCann, Iglesias, Castellanos, Miggy is the GOAT, Kinsler's contract will be up in 2 years)
3. Al Avila isn't Ruben Amaro, he will sell if the Tigers can't compete

Miguel Cabrera is basically Manny Ramirez. A great bat with nothing else to contribute.
Tigers infield is unimpressive.
The Tigers ain't selling **** with that 86 year old owner pining for a championship.

Whaaaaat? Miggy has been an above average defensive 1st baseman the past couple years. And Iglesias is arguably the best SS in the AL not named Tulo. Iglesias has better range and fielding than Alcides Escobar and bats better than him. Now that Andrelton Simmons is on the Angels, it'll be hard to say who is better defensively, they both make Top 10 frequently. Castellanos has been very disappointing but he is 23 and he was a former 1st round draft pick so the potential is still there. He's been the only untouchable prospect the Tigers had in awhile, that should say something. Kinsler is a top 5 second baseman in the majors. Dee Gordon, Altuve, Cano, are all better and Brian Dozier makes a case. He is 33 though but he had arguably his best year of his career last year. The Tigers had no problem scoring runs, even with V-Mart and Miggy hurt and even after trading Cespedes. Their problem was a terrible rotation and the bullpen was worse than ever. Tigers have one of the better infields in the Majors and until yesterday, it was their outfield that was seen as a weakness

Yawn. Not impressed. Cabrera is not an impressive 1B. Sorry. Iglesias is an all glove/no bat guy. He ain't going to repeat the season he just had. Castellanos has over 1000 MLB ABs and a +25% K rate combined with a 5/6% walk rate. I think we know what we have there. And finally, Kinsler is indeed a top 2B, but overall, there are many teams that have better in fields than the Tigers.

The probably here is son is you are a homer.

C  - Berra (Bench)
1B - Gehrig (Musial)
2B - Hornsby (Morgan)
SS - A-Rod (Wagner)
3B - Schmidt (Brett)
LF - Bonds (Williams)
CF - Cobb (Mays)
RF - Aaron (Ruth)
P  - Pete Alexander (Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Koufax, Seaver)

I take Aaron over Ruth. Pete Alexander over the other pitchers.

Its kind of crazy to think Chipper Jones is the second best third baseman of all time. It's Brett I think Chipper is a little farther down the list.

And for anyone who doesn't list Musial anywhere there you are crazy.

Sez the dude who just put Babe Ruth 2nd at his position. 

That invalidates any opinion you have. 

I was looking for "glaring omissions" from the list.

SMH that I missed Musial.

I'm giving myself a time out for that.

The problem with Musial and a list like this is "What is his position?"     He played a lot of 1B/LF/RF.    IIRC, he started about 2 seasons in CF.    If I was making an all-time team, he'd be on it.    Same with Ernie Banks.   SS or 1B?   Played them almost equally.    I'd have him on my team.    And, finally, Pete Rose.   He'd be a great utility guy as he had 600+ starts at 2B, 3B, LF, RF, 1B.   That would give me 11 guys.  I'd need a back-up C and have to decide between 12/13 position players/pitchers.

All that said, I'm not putting Musial, Banks or Rose as GOAT at any position.   Or even 2nd(although I might consider Banks at SS).

Didn't Musial make the all-century team? What position if he did?

I've always felt that Musial was a little bit overrated.  Not badly overrated, but a little bit.

To be fair, I'm obviously not old enough to have watched him play.  And I never really sought out a lot of footage of old Cardinals games.  All I know is that statistically, if you take out the '43 to '46 war years when the rest of the league's talent level was massively depleted, he really feels like he drops out of the all-time great category.  He loses 2 of his 3 MVPs.  His remaining numbers still look really good, but sorta like Manny Ramirez or Johnny Mize good, not GOAT good.

But now you open up "THEY DIDN'T LET BLACKS PLAY!!!!" argument if you remove specific years from a player's career.    And you also open up "Well, was Bonds really all that without PED?" discussion.

The results are the results.