Sim ai conference tourney superman yet again Topic

Posted by joco45215 on 5/30/2016 6:48:00 PM (view original):
My beef was the loss to Eastern Michigan. I blew it against a human coach. And he blew the game plan against the sim. By no means Eastern Michigan should have ever lost to Miami
And why not? There's no conspiracy here. The game engine is programmed to produce wildly divergent results. The better team will usually win but not always. The difference between the SIM Miami team and Eastern Michigan wasn't so vast as to label this as something that never should have happened.

There's also no empirical evidence that the Eastern Michigan coach "blew the game plan" or that anything he would or could have done differently would have changed the outcome. Any suggestion to the contrary is pure speculation.
5/30/2016 7:34 PM
Posted by the0nlyis on 5/30/2016 3:14:00 PM (view original):
I'm aboard the theory that sim teams get hidden bumped per ratings and increased upset chances in the CT.

Anytime I try to run a team a all 0 like sims they never come close to the percentages that the sims do, it insane how well some of them shoot for terrible per ratings with like 2 guys in the 60's and they are making 8-25 on a regular basis which isn't great but for 2 guys with sub 65 spd/per/bh thats way better than they should be shooting
there is literally 0% chance this is true. just want to make sure my position there is clear, its a waste of time to argue any more against something so ridiculous.
5/30/2016 8:01 PM
Two theories on this subject to which I completely subscribe, although I have no concrete evidence of (though not for a lack of trying) and are based on years of experience/observations, are that (1) in the last minute or so of a game the losing team's likelihood of making 3pt shots is increased, and (2) the corrective measure which kicks in after a certain # or % of shots have been missed is either too significant or the threshold which triggers it is too low.

#1 - The only evidence I can offer for this theory is that whether my team plays a man or zone defense I set them to the most extreme perimeter defensive setting for the last minute of the game if my team is winning by 3 or more points. From almost the very beginning I've done this because even early on I thought this was out of whack, and for several years I even kept detailed notes on a game-by-game basis concerning 3pt% of opponents in this scenario. And would compare these numbers against overall averages in every way imaginable. However, because its hard to find any data to really compare them with since nobody either plays or faces a +5 defense on a consistent basis, I eventually realized it wasn't an endeavor that would yield any REAL proof. Despite this, it did serve to confirm my initial and personal suspicions. This is because, whether playing a man or 3-2 zone at +5 in the last minute of a game when winning by 3 or more, although the completion percentage decreased it did not do so in any significant way. If I was forced to give a general quantification of these numbers, then the easiest way to frame it would be something like this: normally opposing teams were only 25% less likely to make a 3pt shot in this situation. From what I recall, teams which had a number in the 35% range were definitely on one extreme of the bell-curve. Also, very often when I'd adjust these individual season numbers to reflect only those games against quality human coaches or great sim teams (which is almost always still more than half my games every season), I found this number significantly increased to around only a 15% reduction in likelihood.

#2 - Admittedly, I have much less observable examples for this (though again, not for a lack of trying), and at worst someone could argue this is circumstantial - to which I wouldn't have a great defense. There was actually a recent good discussion of why sims with terrible PER ratings (let alone others that go into perimeter scoring) can still shoot around 25% or so from behind the arc on the season, and I think it hit the nail on the head for the most part but stopped just short of my position on the issue, which is that I think this is more often than not due to the fact that these teams also take a very large number of 3pt attempts. Which (although they probably disagree with my opinion here) is latently expressed by other coaches in this thread because I too almost always go +2 or +3 against sims teams based purely on the number of 3s they take - no matter any of the other factors involved. The other thing which plays into this factor, and this is the point where I put on my tin-foil hat, is that I think this is the most recognizable with individual player performance. Nothing shaped my view on this more than the difference it makes between setting a players 3pt frequency from -1 to 0, specifically in that players with average PER ratings actually performed better from behind the arc. Most surprisingly, I noticed that it not only increased their 3pt% on the season but also decreased variance on a game to game basis. For the sake of brevity I'll put it like this, it use to be common for a guy on my team to go 0-2 in a game, now it is just as common (if not more so) to see a guy go 1-3 from behind the line, and in those rare occasions there is an 0-3 it is almost always because they took a half-court shot.
5/30/2016 8:36 PM
Posted by possumfiend on 5/30/2016 7:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by joco45215 on 5/30/2016 6:48:00 PM (view original):
My beef was the loss to Eastern Michigan. I blew it against a human coach. And he blew the game plan against the sim. By no means Eastern Michigan should have ever lost to Miami
And why not? There's no conspiracy here. The game engine is programmed to produce wildly divergent results. The better team will usually win but not always. The difference between the SIM Miami team and Eastern Michigan wasn't so vast as to label this as something that never should have happened.

There's also no empirical evidence that the Eastern Michigan coach "blew the game plan" or that anything he would or could have done differently would have changed the outcome. Any suggestion to the contrary is pure speculation.
I wasn't referring to eastern Michigan blowing the game plan. Their game plan was sound. Akron didn't set up their game plan I assume it's been a busy weekend.
5/30/2016 9:33 PM
Posted by joco45215 on 5/30/2016 9:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by possumfiend on 5/30/2016 7:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by joco45215 on 5/30/2016 6:48:00 PM (view original):
My beef was the loss to Eastern Michigan. I blew it against a human coach. And he blew the game plan against the sim. By no means Eastern Michigan should have ever lost to Miami
And why not? There's no conspiracy here. The game engine is programmed to produce wildly divergent results. The better team will usually win but not always. The difference between the SIM Miami team and Eastern Michigan wasn't so vast as to label this as something that never should have happened.

There's also no empirical evidence that the Eastern Michigan coach "blew the game plan" or that anything he would or could have done differently would have changed the outcome. Any suggestion to the contrary is pure speculation.
I wasn't referring to eastern Michigan blowing the game plan. Their game plan was sound. Akron didn't set up their game plan I assume it's been a busy weekend.
Doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. Proper game planning does not guarantee success any more than improper game planning guarantees a loss. I watched a ghost ship Illinois team win a National Title in Crum a few season back. Literally, no change in game plan after he abandoned the team 4 games in ... do you think being set at -2 all season long was the proper game plan for every game? It doesn't matter he won a national championship. Two seasons ago a SIM Clemson team went to the final four in Crum and last season the same SIM Clemson team went to the Championship game. Do you think a 0 setting was the proper game plan for every game the SIM played? It's not like these schools were playing crappy teams who weren't trying to take advantage. So what does that tell you about game planning?

I'm not saying there aren't things one can do to give themselves advantages and put the odds more in their favor but game plan or not, the RNG is what determines outcomes in this game and sometimes, no matter what game plan is employed the SIM wins. And the SIM Miami team still wasn't significantly worse than the teams it beat.
5/30/2016 10:20 PM
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Sim ai conference tourney superman yet again Topic

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