Posted by dahsdebater on 5/31/2016 4:48:00 PM (view original):
We're only a few days in, but the beta has already confirmed my suspicions that if and when the changes are enacted, I will be retiring from HD. I'm already down to 1 world. I don't have the regular free time that it seems is going to be necessary to actually be successful under the new scouting system. It also looks like luck is going to be a massively enhanced factor. What I like about D2 and D3 is that they're less luck-oriented than D1 (from a recruiting standpoint in particular). From early returns, it looks to me like luck factors more heavily into the lower divisions in the beta than in D1 under the current system. Maybe you'll find some good recruits, but I don't see an obvious path to a reasonably high probability of finding enough to fill 3-4 open spots in a region with competing schools. Maybe as we get deeper in and understand the processes better it will reveal itself, but it's not obvious now.

From my perspective, this is a bad change for a game that's already pushing the limits of how small the user base can be while remaining entertaining to play. And that's not about the luck factor. It's about the time input to maximize your odds of finding those good recruits. It's more work. I will say this - effort should correlate much more strongly with success. Under the current system, a guy who spends 12-15 hours per week micromanaging every aspect of 1-2 teams will develop an edge over a guy who spends 2 hours a week setting a few gameplanning settings and maybe 5-10 total hours on recruiting. But it's not a huge edge. With a little luck, the low-effort guy will still make deep tournament runs, and will certainly beat the high-effort guy head to head a reasonable proportion of the time. I think that gap is about to grow. If you're the high-effort guy, you're going to be excited about that. It's nice to have your efforts rewarded. I used to be that guy, I get it. But probably 75-80% of the user base fits more closely into the low-effort set. If enough of those guys get frustrated and quit then the population crash is easily going to outweigh the effort advantage, even for the high-effort users.

What about the people who keep there own data? Is that consider high effort? I would think it would.

Right now I scout the last 5 days of the non conference session. Then I schedule my opponets when the rpi is finalized. I focus on conference games with game planning and let my mind set in a mode to focus on the conference games. Which I just got out of a rebuild and have a few goals I want to complete short-term.

Posted by PBryant14 on 5/31/2016 3:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rogelio on 5/31/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by PBryant14 on 5/31/2016 11:51:00 AM (view original):
Newbie question here regarding the update: Do you have to participate in the in-season recruiting, or can you disregard it and recruit at the normal time?

I think you need to participate in it. There was a lot of discussion about a 2nd round of recruiting between seasons, but I don't know how that has sorted out. It's also helpful to note that the Beta testing decisions are probably not final yet.

Thanks Rogelio. Appreciate it. I wonder if you could start scouting a few days before signings or if that would hinder your effectiveness. Interested to hear how it's going for those testing. Thanks to all posting the updates.

The answer is yes. There is a second round of recruiting after the season. That's after job applications, but before rollover. I suppose you could stick with that only, but I suspect that you would not roll your budget over to it. We'll see how that is designed.

A lot of folks are used to getting scouting over with in 1 day (basically). The way this update is likely intended to be played will require very little effort, as long as one realizes that these steps seem to be intended:

1. Discover players. The date for regional camps is about a week away in most cases. So, a ton of coaches are probably taking this step horribly inefficiently at this point (both in budget and time).
2. Scout the players you are interested in. Instantaneous responses and no reading scouting emails! Hard to explain until you see it.
3. Wait for recruiting to start. There's a set date when actions are needed. As we are told, there are no cycles.
4. After the season, kids will x'fer & EE.
5. Change jobs...(maybe rescind scholarships?)
6. Second recruiting round...unknown budgets...unknown whether new recruits are generated to go with x'fers [could be stars or sloppy seconds]. Who knows?
7. new coaches join the world (inherit all players for year 1).
8. repeat.

The reality is that you probably can discover recruits and scout anytime within about a 2 to 3 week period with all responses instantaneous. Then recruiting will start and there are no cycles. The secondary recruiting might be the new bailout for coaches that totally strike out during primary recruiting. So, it seems like a very steep learning curve, but I expect its designed to spit out more processed information at the end with no greater effort.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/31/2016 2:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by chapelhillne on 5/31/2016 12:20:00 PM (view original):
I like it so far. It is interesting and a new challenge. I think it's probably way to early to form any super strong opinions on it, either positive or negative. But I like the improved realism a lot. I really like having to discover the talent, and I like the camps idea a lot.

I feel pretty much the same way.

I also agree. I don't foresee this being more time consuming, once I'm used to the system. It's certainly not more complicated and tedious than trying to figure out all your opponents' budgets and targets. With a couple tweaks on the assistant coach (along the lines of what tarvolon has suggested), this has potential to be a much less tedious and more fun process, with not much more effort.

Posted by nachopuzzle on 5/31/2016 10:36:00 AM (view original):
So, having spent a few days pushing most of the buttons in the new interface and now having rang the recruiting bells for a few hours, I think its more than obvious, in my humble opinion, this thing is much more of a "marketing" upgrade that just so happens to be masquerading as a "product" update. Does it look a hell of a lot slicker and will it function more seamlessly once the bugs get worked out...I think the answer to both of those is absolutely, and even more so should they heed the users' suggestions. Which I think is backed-up by the fact that the majority of the feedback deals not with new features but old ones that people would like to see integrated better.

I think its noteworthy to point-out that the only tab which is aesthetically different from all of the other ones are the new functions within recruiting itself. They are much less generic and much more graphics based than all the others. The same general type of features that, which I'm sure everyone has also noticed, have been used to remake almost every facet of WIS website over the past 8 to 12 months. So, in reality, it was only a matter of time before it was to be extended into the games as well, but this fact alone is quite understandable and, as far as functionality goes, can be a good thing.

However, can a link be drawn between the eventuality of the upgrade which everyone is now consciously (if not subconsciously for a long time) aware of and the complete overhaul of recruiting that we have been presented??? I think the answer is yes...but it is too simplistic to say this must be the case since they were rolled-out together, although rather telling, and too speculative to claim the recruiting update is a Freudian manifestation brought about both in response to and by a process that was itself motivated by the exact same insecurities, although not entirely unfounded I think. But, given the previously made points along with the fact that these aesthetic changes aren't needed in order to facilitate the recruiting update, I don't think it is a stretch in the least to say that these upgrades are the primary factor for the update to HD rather than recruiting. However, I think possibly the more relevant and insightful question is whether these factors are in any way responsible for influencing the nature or outcome of the proposed recruiting update. A link of this type, whose effect might have far ranging implications, is also a much more difficult one to establish, especially since I have absolutely zero knowledge of the inner workings of WIS.

I'll be the first to admit that high-level conspiracies with serious consequences probably take place much more frequently than we would like to imagine. But "conspiracy theories", as they are popularly understood, hold so much sway because of their ability to provide an explanation for individual powerlessness as well as justification for the resulting disenfranchisement, which is typically engendered through general inaction or radical actions. And, where one person sees the illuminati or vast jewish conpiracy another sees Simon Cowell as an inter-dimensional reptilian overload whose plan it is to destroy humanity one terrible TV program at a time...and usually they are a combination of both, because why the hell not. Needless to say, its much easier to direct that energy towards an individual rather than a diffuse unknown many.

With all these things in mind let me layout my positions on the current update(s) then contrast them with a counter, and sometimes much louder, position on the matter. Based on a very wide swath of information, from seble's own words to my views to the extensive opinions of HD users on a variety of topics, I think the proposed (and most likely not to change) recruiting update is a very very very bad idea. The reason I started playing this game and many active veteran users in the community, as well as the majority of those who don't post, have echoed in some form that the large reason they love HD is because its a strategy based game. And this update fundamentally undermines this most basic aspect because the information that is needed on which to actually form a strategy is, for all intents and purposes, basically purged from the game - not to mention further compounded by the need for exceedingly fragmented and tedious decisions based on the vaguest and most unrelated of information. It defeats itself on sooooo many levels that getting into specifics, either theoretically or how it is manifested during the recruiting process, would make this thread even more unbearable than it already is. However, this question of how anuninvited stranger (instead of everybody's favorite drunk auntie, kinda like colonels faded on two bottles of Moet) now lives in your living room and eats breakfast naked each morning is the most pressing issue.

Despite the fact that whenever discussing this update seble always talks in the first person, I'm of the opinion that he's either (a) been told explicitly or suggested in the most aggressive possible fashion to produce something that highlights the newly implemented aesthetics of WIS's, or (b) feels this update is a great time to implement changes that coincide with the goals or current direction of the company. With option (a) there isn't much choice, it is what it is and a player has to grind on them fools, but (b) kinda scares the **** out of me the most because there is nothing more destructive than somebody attempting to "interpreting the will" of somebody and/or something else. As for the other and often loudest opinions on this matter, seble is a complete imbecile that either couldn't tie his shoes or doesn't care about the opinion of the individuals who make his job relevant. I would be outraged and quit HD immediately if i ever found out that one of those options were in deed the case - but for real though, this recruiting update is so bad that it invites these suspicions...and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it one of them had to be the case.

So, where does the truth of this situation intersect with reality...the answer to which could save us all POUNDS of money and TONS of time??? Although the answer is exceedingly important, it is equally if not more so obscured, and probably for that reason. Hopefully we'll find out sooner than later, because this place and (I'm convinced more so every day) the people here have something special going on. Fairly recently when I took a 4 month hiatus, I rarely logged-in here, but I talked to the gangsters at WIS chat on a weekly if not daily basis. Which gets to the crux of the argument, theOnly way to disenfranchise people is to completely ignore them...whether this is the WIS overloads pulling strings from afar or is purely seble's vision for the future of HD, I can almost assure that it will lead to the figurative decimation of HD if it continues down the same path.

...however, it won't be the literal decimation because zorzii, dac, ars, and benis (but NOT llama because he's a proud man) will still be here balling out yo.

+1

Posted by shoe3 on 5/31/2016 5:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/31/2016 2:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by chapelhillne on 5/31/2016 12:20:00 PM (view original):
I like it so far. It is interesting and a new challenge. I think it's probably way to early to form any super strong opinions on it, either positive or negative. But I like the improved realism a lot. I really like having to discover the talent, and I like the camps idea a lot.

I feel pretty much the same way.

I also agree. I don't foresee this being more time consuming, once I'm used to the system. It's certainly not more complicated and tedious than trying to figure out all your opponents' budgets and targets. With a couple tweaks on the assistant coach (along the lines of what tarvolon has suggested), this has potential to be a much less tedious and more fun process, with not much more effort.

I kinda feel a couple people are being very, very negative (and very, very outspoken) whatabout the update and many people really like it. I'm not saying that those who don't like it and our outspoken are stupid, but I really hope we can find a happy medium.

Posted by viva_il_re on 5/31/2016 8:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 5/31/2016 6:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 5/31/2016 5:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/31/2016 2:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by chapelhillne on 5/31/2016 12:20:00 PM (view original):
I like it so far. It is interesting and a new challenge. I think it's probably way to early to form any super strong opinions on it, either positive or negative. But I like the improved realism a lot. I really like having to discover the talent, and I like the camps idea a lot.

I feel pretty much the same way.

I also agree. I don't foresee this being more time consuming, once I'm used to the system. It's certainly not more complicated and tedious than trying to figure out all your opponents' budgets and targets. With a couple tweaks on the assistant coach (along the lines of what tarvolon has suggested), this has potential to be a much less tedious and more fun process, with not much more effort.

I kinda feel a couple people are being very, very negative (and very, very outspoken) whatabout the update and many people really like it. I'm not saying that those who don't like it and our outspoken are stupid, but I really hope we can find a happy medium.

The thing is though you are so new any **** seble puts on a platter you like because its different and looks new. You don't even really know how to recruit in the current system you have no idea what is wrong in the current system(or have no experienced it) so you have no idea what this update will do or how it affects because you have no idea what is wrong with the current system, you just think it looks pretty and would make recruiting more realistic. You're the number 1 fan of seble because you don't know how bad this is considering all the other things being left out. There's also a good deal of people besides me who've either raised a lot of questions and have even said they do not plan to stay, just because all the new people think its great and a few older people who are interested in seeing what happens doesn't also mean a bunch of people are for it. You aren;t going to find a happy medium those willing to try it out will, those against it won't or find out they don't like it will cut teams and quit leaving you with less and less coaches. And the update isn't going to magically bring in new coaches (and when they do another march madness thing, you'll have less and less people stick than like the 5 who did because this is a bunch more work and there won't be anyone around to guide them like there is now)

I was going to write a 250+ word response but decided that that would be a waste of time!

Posted by kcsundevil on 5/31/2016 9:33:00 PM (view original):
Calm down, dude. It's a game. If you don't want to play this game, play a different game.

there isn't unfortunately....

Posted by viva_il_re on 5/31/2016 9:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 5/31/2016 9:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by viva_il_re on 5/31/2016 8:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 5/31/2016 6:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 5/31/2016 5:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/31/2016 2:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by chapelhillne on 5/31/2016 12:20:00 PM (view original):
I like it so far. It is interesting and a new challenge. I think it's probably way to early to form any super strong opinions on it, either positive or negative. But I like the improved realism a lot. I really like having to discover the talent, and I like the camps idea a lot.

I feel pretty much the same way.

I also agree. I don't foresee this being more time consuming, once I'm used to the system. It's certainly not more complicated and tedious than trying to figure out all your opponents' budgets and targets. With a couple tweaks on the assistant coach (along the lines of what tarvolon has suggested), this has potential to be a much less tedious and more fun process, with not much more effort.

I kinda feel a couple people are being very, very negative (and very, very outspoken) whatabout the update and many people really like it. I'm not saying that those who don't like it and our outspoken are stupid, but I really hope we can find a happy medium.

The thing is though you are so new any **** seble puts on a platter you like because its different and looks new. You don't even really know how to recruit in the current system you have no idea what is wrong in the current system(or have no experienced it) so you have no idea what this update will do or how it affects because you have no idea what is wrong with the current system, you just think it looks pretty and would make recruiting more realistic. You're the number 1 fan of seble because you don't know how bad this is considering all the other things being left out. There's also a good deal of people besides me who've either raised a lot of questions and have even said they do not plan to stay, just because all the new people think its great and a few older people who are interested in seeing what happens doesn't also mean a bunch of people are for it. You aren;t going to find a happy medium those willing to try it out will, those against it won't or find out they don't like it will cut teams and quit leaving you with less and less coaches. And the update isn't going to magically bring in new coaches (and when they do another march madness thing, you'll have less and less people stick than like the 5 who did because this is a bunch more work and there won't be anyone around to guide them like there is now)

I was going to write a 250+ word response but decided that that would be a waste of time!

everything I said there is true and you know it

I actually didn't read all of it because it would take almost an hour. I don't think anyone did, we all know what it says already. I hope you didn't spend too much time on it!

Yeah, the real problem is that negativity proliferates. Negative thoughts and feelings stick with you, and start to become perpetuating and self-justifying. Lots of people are open to, and even like these changes as presented in beta. The ones who hate it are going to be the loudest, and it's going to be an echo chamber. The game is going to be fine. Some will leave, but lots of people leave now.

Posted by shoe3 on 5/31/2016 9:39:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, the real problem is that negativity proliferates. Negative thoughts and feelings stick with you, and start to become perpetuating and self-justifying. Lots of people are open to, and even like these changes as presented in beta. The ones who hate it are going to be the loudest, and it's going to be an echo chamber. The game is going to be fine. Some will leave, but lots of people leave now.

don't need to be self-justifying with what we've seen lol

Posted by kcsundevil on 5/31/2016 9:33:00 PM (view original):
Calm down, dude. It's a game. If you don't want to play this game, play a different game.

There aren't any different games like this to go play, unless you can drop some knowledge on us??? Which means to some effect that HD has cultivated a niche user base at the moment. However, I don't think it has to be this way at all and whoever is driving this train doesn't want it to be this way either...but they are going about it in the exact opposite way of almost every piece of customer feedback that's been hurled their way. I wouldn't write a weird manifesto if I didn't really care about HD which reveals in some since, like viva, that I'm not very calm at the moment either.

For a bunch of users, myself included, this gamma test is like peeking over the edge of the abyss.