Posted by zorzii on 6/1/2016 2:12:00 PM (view original):
What's the point of BETA if you do not fix what's not working? If they do that, I mean let's face it, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

So give them a chance, maybe they do it right this time around. And I am not really liking the new scouting/recruiting thing right now. So I hope they improve it.

Frankly, previous beta run by seble, there functionally is no point. Very little actual improvement was made during the beta. Bugs were missed. It wasn't very useful. In fact, if you read through the earlier comments (in the weeks immediately following the update announcement), you will find that a number of users were opposed to the update, not because of its content, but on principle because of a lack of confidence in the HD user community that seble can properly handle a major rollout.

But like I said, I was just pointing out the opinion of some jaded vets. I'm willing to give seble another chance on this one for one simple reason - this rollout feels much more consumer-ready, much better constructed - than previous rollouts. Those "betas" felt like disorganized alphas. This looks and feels much more like a beta test, so I think there is a good chance things will run better.

I do think this update will drive me away, but that's mostly because I don't want to basically learn a new game. With some adjustments to scouting and budgets that go beyond what I would call massaging but come far short of a major change, it could be a good change. But I just don't think I'll want to take the time to get competitive in a new system, at least not in the next few months.

Beta isn't a trial for where we all get to have a say, and then have a democratic vote on if we like it or not. Benis is likely right in that the most we are going to see changed post-beta will be de-bugging and minor fixes. I wouldn't expect an overhaul or abort, unless there was something big that made the system unplayable. And that doesn't look like it's going to be the case. Its for working out kinks, and to give players a chance to experiment and fail and work out the process that works for them in a no-stakes setting.

Some players are never going to be able to accept it, because someone is moving their cheese, and they don't have any control over it. I think that's where the meltdown came from, and I doubt he'll be the only one. But I also doubt that there will be a significant number. And anyway, creative destruction.

It is more user friendly. They just need to shorten season recruiting, make camps players who would actually consider your school based on prestige/level and limited assistant scouting to only going for guys based in your level.

Posted by beachhouse on 6/1/2016 2:58:00 PM (view original):
It is more user friendly. They just need to shorten season recruiting, make camps players who would actually consider your school based on prestige/level and limited assistant scouting to only going for guys based in your level.

I think you guys are confusing user friendly and a pretty looking interface

Uh it's a bigger learning curve to new coaches and now there is no one to help because no one knows about it.

Before: scout states and recruit you just need to know what ratings are good and best methods to recruit

Now: choose between ac coach, camps, fss, multiple levels of scouting, letter grades that don't make sense(so many people are going to get upset when their team of A- to A+ recruits aren't actually any good because they are all ~75 and no potential). And we don't know effort values or how recruiting will work so no good luck spending a few seasons figuring that out.

Have you tried it on your smartphone yet?

it is much more user friendly in this regard.

At least they bothered to do something. You don't play the basketball sim, so I don't think any complaints can ever be made.

You should go and create a poll in the sim basketball forum and ask whether they like seble. There hasn't been any proper update to the basketball sim since 2010.

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/1/2016 2:10:00 PM (view original):

I am positive the problems will be worked out during BETA.

To be fair to the people who are so overwhelmingly negative - this is largely because you joined the site in 2014. If you'd been around for previous rollouts, you'd be a lot less confident in this.

i almost made this same post, but decided against it, or maybe i just got distracted...

i agreed w/ the rest of what you were saying zorzii - no reason to be overtly negative, should angle for constructive criticism, etc... i tried to tell only the same thing shortly before he went full nuclear but what can you do. to me, right now the scouting stuff looks time consuming enough to be a major threat to the long term existence of this game, but honestly, its not yet as bad as i feared. the whole not getting money for players who leave without being 100% sure to leave (EEs and ineligible seniors who may or may not hit 2.7) is pretty bad, too. i think the player preferences are a fantastic idea at a high level, but the categories seble came up certainly worry me. tempo? i get that real player do that - but this is a sim - we aren't human coaches who have a style, where some coaches always like to run, and others always play slowdown. if our kids had IQ that accumulated in those areas (as I would like), it would be different. but for us, the switching cost between uptempo and slowdown is 0, so of course we'd do it to fit the players. i dont think its even clear to coaches what preferences would fit their program, in some cases.

anyway, our previous experience suggests that at best, some of the above may be improved. at worst, and if you go off history, in the expected case, none of it will be addressed in beta. rampant negativity isn't good - but naive, unfounded optimism isn't, either. got to go with the healthy dose of reality on this one.

Posted by viva_il_re on 6/1/2016 3:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by beachhouse on 6/1/2016 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Have you tried it on your smartphone yet?

it is much more user friendly in this regard.

Yes I did check on my smartphone and what congrats for joining this decade? It took that long to make a mobile friendly interface?

If you hate the product so much, nobody is forcing you to use it.

WIS has no obligation to keep HD open at all, so your broad anger at their efforts to make any improvements at all has no logical endgame.

I think they need to make scouting/recruiting more newbie friendly. Seble has said he wants to create more strategy with scouting and it's going to be the hardest at D3 since you have very little money to play (i.e. learn) with. It's a steeper learning curve than current setup I think. So basically you'll have new people start with the most difficult division to scout in? hm. That's my biggest thing, give a little more money, get rid of worthless level 1 scouting.

However, overall, I'm not opposed to a lot of the other stuff. I think it could work. In season scouting/recruiting will be more appealing to new folks and I believe this 100%.

Posted by shoe3 on 6/1/2016 2:37:00 PM (view original):
Beta isn't a trial for where we all get to have a say, and then have a democratic vote on if we like it or not. Benis is likely right in that the most we are going to see changed post-beta will be de-bugging and minor fixes. I wouldn't expect an overhaul or abort, unless there was something big that made the system unplayable. And that doesn't look like it's going to be the case. Its for working out kinks, and to give players a chance to experiment and fail and work out the process that works for them in a no-stakes setting.

Some players are never going to be able to accept it, because someone is moving their cheese, and they don't have any control over it. I think that's where the meltdown came from, and I doubt he'll be the only one. But I also doubt that there will be a significant number. And anyway, creative destruction.

this is dangerous thinking... there are concrete tradeoffs in all of the major releases so far, and to think not many will object and leave, is to ignore history. this has been demonstrated consistently, potential knocked off a lot of coaches, and the sim engine rewrite knocked off a lot more. we are going to lose a bunch of coaches from this update, too - its almost guaranteed, got to be at least 90%, the magnitude of change is too big, with too many tradeoffs. even if seble makes all the adjustments i'd like to see (not sure what those are - i'll have to see more), i am sure plenty of long timers will not be up for it and leave. the only hope is that seble will end up with something compelling enough, that with a marketing push, new coaches are brought in. the question is, does this update bring that level of improvement to the game? not if some coaches will get ****** and go home. that question was answered when seble decided to overhaul the most revered part of the game.

now, i'm not of the camp that says, because of the above, seble shouldn't touch it. granted, i 100% believe he should have made adjustments to pacify the existing base, maybe bring some long timers back, some core stuff like adjusting job logic, recruit gen, and eliminating hard caps. then, if he did it well, he'd have built up some political capital to try this update. that would have been the smart route. but, we went this route, and there will be consequences. i just hope he does manage to create a game that is more appealing to today's audience, and WIS makes an actual push to bring in new users. otherwise, its curtains. the reason i don't say that means seble shouldn't touch it - is because that is where the game is headed anyway. you have to give it the old college try. i just wish he tried to set himself up for a soft landing first.

Posted by viva_il_re on 6/1/2016 3:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 6/1/2016 3:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by viva_il_re on 6/1/2016 3:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by beachhouse on 6/1/2016 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Have you tried it on your smartphone yet?

it is much more user friendly in this regard.

Yes I did check on my smartphone and what congrats for joining this decade? It took that long to make a mobile friendly interface?

If you hate the product so much, nobody is forcing you to use it.

WIS has no obligation to keep HD open at all, so your broad anger at their efforts to make any improvements at all has no logical endgame.

maybe if your dumbass could read you could maybe read the posts saying I'm quitting once its rolled out

You'll be missed.