And I've been all over Griffey just like Ripken.

******* Ortiz was on the same goddam PED list as ARod and he doesn't get ****. WTF?

Friendly guy, laughs with the media.

I think ultimately we come down in the same place here, which is that in the end, we don't really care who did and didn't use overly much. So many did you can't call it a massive advantage, all the numbers are at least partially skewed. Given that there's really no way to go back and differentiate between guys who did and didn't use, the best choice is to just not worry about it.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/22/2016 3:02:00 PM (view original):
**** you, Ichiro. It's what you get for bombing Pearl Harbor.

Ichiro would jack you up. You know this.

Posted by tecwrg on 6/22/2016 3:30:00 PM (view original):
Well, it's also disingenuous to include Ichiro's Japanese league hits when comparing to Pete's MLB hits.

And despite Pete being a "national embarrassment", that has nothing to do with his accomplishments on the field. None of his 4,256 hits were tainted by his issues with gambling and lying.

Ichiro is the better player and we all know it. If he had the same at bats as Rose, he'd surpass him. So why not just anoint him as the hit king since we all know he is? **** the numbers.

Posted by Jtpsops on 6/22/2016 4:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 6/22/2016 4:42:00 PM (view original):
Oh, FFS, I was just using him as an example. If you're saying Ripken was a marginal ballplayer (granted, a tick above "just hanging on"), I'd still be interested how BAD some players were when they passed a career milestone or record.

My point with Ripken wasn't necessarily his stats. It was more so the fact that he passed that career milestone 6 years before his career ended. Hanging on implies he was just playing long enough to get that record.

BL would say stats are everything.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/22/2016 8:08:00 PM (view original):
I am too. Jeter doesn't get a pass. Misses 40 games, more or less, with a shoulder separation and comes back and has his best power year. How odd.

Thats half your HBD teams.

Posted by sjpoker on 6/22/2016 8:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 6/22/2016 3:30:00 PM (view original):
Well, it's also disingenuous to include Ichiro's Japanese league hits when comparing to Pete's MLB hits.

And despite Pete being a "national embarrassment", that has nothing to do with his accomplishments on the field. None of his 4,256 hits were tainted by his issues with gambling and lying.

Ichiro is the better player and we all know it. If he had the same at bats as Rose, he'd surpass him. So why not just anoint him as the hit king since we all know he is? **** the numbers.

Because he isn't the hit king.

Posted by sjpoker on 6/22/2016 8:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 6/22/2016 3:30:00 PM (view original):
Well, it's also disingenuous to include Ichiro's Japanese league hits when comparing to Pete's MLB hits.

And despite Pete being a "national embarrassment", that has nothing to do with his accomplishments on the field. None of his 4,256 hits were tainted by his issues with gambling and lying.

Ichiro is the better player and we all know it. If he had the same at bats as Rose, he'd surpass him. So why not just anoint him as the hit king since we all know he is? **** the numbers.

Better player based on what? I agree that he likely would have had more hits in the same number of ABs. But that's partly because he walks so much less than Rose did. He also hits for far less power.

Comparison of Rose and Ichiro, offensively at least, can be summed up by this: Ichiro's best single-season OPS+ was 130. During the 9-year period from 1968 through 1979 Rose had a cumulative OPS+ of 136. Ichiro's best 9-year OPS+ stretch is 118.

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/23/2016 1:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 6/22/2016 8:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 6/22/2016 3:30:00 PM (view original):
Well, it's also disingenuous to include Ichiro's Japanese league hits when comparing to Pete's MLB hits.

And despite Pete being a "national embarrassment", that has nothing to do with his accomplishments on the field. None of his 4,256 hits were tainted by his issues with gambling and lying.

Ichiro is the better player and we all know it. If he had the same at bats as Rose, he'd surpass him. So why not just anoint him as the hit king since we all know he is? **** the numbers.

Better player based on what? I agree that he likely would have had more hits in the same number of ABs. But that's partly because he walks so much less than Rose did. He also hits for far less power.

Comparison of Rose and Ichiro, offensively at least, can be summed up by this: Ichiro's best single-season OPS+ was 130. During the 9-year period from 1968 through 1979 Rose had a cumulative OPS+ of 136. Ichiro's best 9-year OPS+ stretch is 118.

Yeah thats nice. Now compare fielding and baserunning. for me.

Fielding I'd call a push. Ichiro was probably a better fielder in his prime, but Rose's versatility was a big asset. Rose was also a pretty good baserunner, but obviously not the base thief that Ichiro was.

End of the day, if I could have either in his prime on my team, I'd take Rose hands down.

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/23/2016 2:47:00 PM (view original):
Fielding I'd call a push. Ichiro was probably a better fielder in his prime, but Rose's versatility was a big asset. Rose was also a pretty good baserunner, but obviously not the base thief that Ichiro was.

End of the day, if I could have either in his prime on my team, I'd take Rose hands down.

RACIST!!!

Have Jeter, Ripken or Griffey ever been linked to PEDs, other than maybe a casual rumour here and there? Even if people have suspicions, it's not really giving them a pass when they haven't been linked to anything. Same goes for Piazza and Bagwell.

All of those guys were linked to PEDs...

On these boards

By me. I don't care if guys used PEDs. I like to be entertained. Be your best. Even if it's your chemical best.

I'm just saying everybody in that era is suspect and, if they performed really well, even more so.