and the ones that dont(like mookie) are bringing other valuable skills...you can find 3pt shooting at any point in the draft

i do love that barros season tho...one of the weirdest in nba history...itd be like if jerryd bayless but up a 20/7 this year for the 76ers...totally came out of nowhere

point guards drafted before Barros: Mookie, Billups, Nash, Deron, Porter, Ward, Payton, Harper, Cheeks, Lowry, Rondo, West, Frazier.

of course it depends what season you use, but 5 out of 13 are below Barros in the passing department, at least in terms of rate. take into account the fact that Barros plays 3300 minutes, which establishes a greater average Ast% for that position over 48 minutes, and it's more passing overall.

in terms of scoring, only Nash and Porter compare. so yeah, Charlie Ward's 86 D and 53.4 eFG% is impressive, but he only scores 7 or 8 PPG and is a little heavy on fouls. i'm not saying he's better than these guys - it always depends on what you need in terms of usage and defense, etc. - but Barros got drafted by banditone once a couple seasons ago. He's as good as all of these guys. offensively, he's better than any of the efficient big men you can pick up in the later rounds, and most of the ones in the early rounds. if you have a guy like T Mac, Wade or Kobe (or Bird, Barkley, Karl, Boozer, Durant, etc.), Barros is a perfect fit.

You can get what you get from Barros from Mark Price much later in the draft for instance

meanwhile the case for Terry Porter vis. Barros

both are 2 pts of usage, both are 30-30-30 guys which I like for floor balance - Porter gets to the line slightly more frequently, slightly better efg, slightly better as%

where Porter gets the edge:
defense, 15 pts better than Barros is a significant difference going from a minus to a plus (someone being covered by Barros will get a little bitty boost to their chance to make a shot, someone being guarded by Porter will get a little tiny drag on their chance of same)
price tag? can I find a solid 700 minutes (the difference between Barros at 8.2m and Porter at 6.6m) for 1.6m and fill another draft slot? easy.

bottom line: budgeting in the ODL is important (sez the guy with Shaq, Oscar and Lucas) - Porter is slightly better at several important things and costs significantly less money

Posted by bds9992 on 7/25/2016 9:32:00 PM (view original):
point guards drafted before Barros: Mookie, Billups, Nash, Deron, Porter, Ward, Payton, Harper, Cheeks, Lowry, Rondo, West, Frazier.

of course it depends what season you use, but 5 out of 13 are below Barros in the passing department, at least in terms of rate. take into account the fact that Barros plays 3300 minutes, which establishes a greater average Ast% for that position over 48 minutes, and it's more passing overall.

in terms of scoring, only Nash and Porter compare. so yeah, Charlie Ward's 86 D and 53.4 eFG% is impressive, but he only scores 7 or 8 PPG and is a little heavy on fouls. i'm not saying he's better than these guys - it always depends on what you need in terms of usage and defense, etc. - but Barros got drafted by banditone once a couple seasons ago. He's as good as all of these guys. offensively, he's better than any of the efficient big men you can pick up in the later rounds, and most of the ones in the early rounds. if you have a guy like T Mac, Wade or Kobe (or Bird, Barkley, Karl, Boozer, Durant, etc.), Barros is a perfect fit.

almost all those guys are significantly better on defense and cost a ton less - and some of those guys wont be used as PGs - I don't think you're thinking about cost and I kind of don't want you to because it's a competition but I guess I'll be nice and point out that part of this competition is value at cost both in terms of cap $ and draft slot - Barros looks nice but because of his price tag he's actually not that great - think of what else you could get in the second round for 8.2m

Posted by dh555 on 7/25/2016 9:28:00 PM (view original):
i do love that barros season tho...one of the weirdest in nba history...itd be like if jerryd bayless but up a 20/7 this year for the 76ers...totally came out of nowhere

I think that season was one of the ones where they pushed the 3pt line in a little bit maybe? I think, might be wrong, but maybe?

Posted by bds9992 on 7/25/2016 8:48:00 PM (view original):
I'm on the record: Dana Barros should be drafted every year, no later than the 3rd round. If Terry Porter goes in the 2nd, Barros should go in the 3rd. He's like an A- Steph Curry, for crying out loud. #DraftBarros

Barros is an A- Steph Curry??? What???

Yeah bds lost his mind a little bit there

well.....cost is relative.

lately i'm looking at a metric called Cost per Minute that i co-opted. basically, if your cost per minute is equivalent to a player with a higher salary, you can afford either of those players.

Barros - $2,477.10 per minute

90-91 Porter - $2,502.06 per minute

Barros is actually slightly cheaper. and you're getting nearly Porter's level of quality for 700 more minutes. so yeah.

This is my first time ever doing evals and since we do not know division yet, I will just pick whether a team will make the playoffs or not. Some teams brought up more discussion in my head than others. I go ahead and apologize to the teams that I did pick to make the playoff, my track record is horrible. To the teams I did not pick, congratulations.

jcred5 - T Porter, P Pierce, D Marshall, K Humphries, W Chamberlain
- I like the crew that j has built around Wilt. Porter is efficient and Marshall can do a lot of things. Humphries will get a lot of boards and I thought for sure Drexler was going in the 5th spot, but he went with Pierce, which I like and he will put points for him, assuming jcred goes 66-67. I believe jcred takes this team to the playoffs
mikee1 - L James, K Leonard, M Ginobili, R Parish, E Okafor
- I was surprised that Leonard slipped this far, I love his 15-16 season even though it is short on minutes. The problem I see keeping this team out of the playoffs is there is too much usage. I believe this team will be in the usage penalty majority of the season, if the seasons I am imagining are used. Mikee might use different seasons than I am imagining and make it work. I like each of the 5 players where they were drafted, I would just hate to own this team because I would go back and forth and never be able to make a decision I am comfortable with. I feel this team misses out on the playoffs
cjok1051- S Curry, A Hardaway, M Price, P Ewing, K Faried, L Sanders, G Heard
- I was surprised when c picked Hardaway, I was thinking he might try and get him some rebounding help, but he picked that up with Faried at the 3 spot later on. Hardaway and Curry are a great twosome in this league. I wonder which Price season will be used, but he is a nice backup and you will not experience a huge drop off in usage. Ewing is an interesting pick, I do wonder how you will be able to get 5 good seasons out of your first 5 picks and maintain a balanced number 4 spot. This team could experience some frustrating turnover games, I picked this team to just make the playoffs.
slymonium - M Jordan, A Drummond, R Gobert, C Webber, G Dragic
- It's a good thing there is not a hack-a-shaq option in the sim, because Drummond would be maddening to own. I like the team you have built around MJ. I know there was some discussion last year about how good MJ is in this league, but I feel you have built solid players around him and you got a solid pick with Webber in the 4th. I think this is a playoff team.
milest - M Malone, B McAdoo, C Ward, C Edge, J Barry
- Milest had to go the cheap route after drafting two big monsters. I worry he might have had to go too cheap and might miss out due to it. I am not sure if you tried to trade down, but that would have worked wonders after drafting Malone/McAdoo and then it would not have felt like such a reach with the others. Teams won't be able to pile on down low because you do have efficient 3 point shooting, but I don't think this team is a playoff team.
thomcat - K Abdul-Jabbar, J Erving, K Thompson, D Buse, C Anthony
- This team has potential and if WIS was decent at playing subs, you would always be able to hide Anthony's defense with the defensive squad you have built. Thompson will keep teams honest, but I wonder if the teams overall lack of assists will hurt you. Buse does not offer much in assists, but plays good d and I don't believe he turns the ball over much. I don't see this team making the playoffs though.
bds9992 - D Howard, L Bird, D Barros, C Hawkins, AC Green
- I understand drafting Howard because he does offer a lot, I just think the combo of Shaq/Bird would have offered more. You could have surrounded the team with low usage guys which are usually bound to fall. Barros can shoot lights out, but his lack of defense will hurt, and he is pricy, and I think he was a stretch at where he was picked considering what you are getting. I've never played with Hawkins, but he seems to have some effective seasons, but there were other options I liked. I don't see this team as a playoff team..
Copernicus - S O'Neal, O Robertson, D Harper, J Lucas, A Gordon
- I like the squad that was put around Shaq here. Oscar provides a lot, Harper offers good d and few turnovers, and Lucas will either rebound a ton or rebound good and pass the ball. Lucas was great in the 4th, but I am sure the cap is being stretched out on this team. I do think this team is a playoff team though.
Amerk1180- D Robinson, S Nash, T Chandler, G Hill, S Ibaka
- I like this team. I know Hill is not everyone's favorite, but you have some serious d down low. Chandler was a good 3rd round pick and I almost took him in the 2nd. I like Ibaka in the 5th and fits in well with your team. You are cursed with myself believing you are a playoff team.
jhsukow - D Rodman, B Wallace, K Bryant, J West
- It is never sexy to trade up for another low usage rebounder, but the pair of Wallace and Rodman is too good to pass up. Your team is good at defense and ash proved that you can make Kobe a winner provided by the right cast. Unfortunately, I think your team is too thin right now, but that's only because you have 4 picks. There might be one player who would fit it nicely to your team. I might change my mind after your 3 upcoming picks, but I do not believe this is a playoff team.
JKaye24 - K Malone, S Marion, T Boerwinkle, J Calderon, C Gatling
- I've always liked Malone, but have not used him enough. Marion is a beast at the 3 spot and Boerwinkle helped me win a ship, so I was disappointed he did not last until my pick. Calderon is efficient and passes well, but it feels like you might need a good defense SG to pair with him. I might be too big on having someone play defense at point. Gatling is a great backup pick and makes sure you do not lose scoring while Malone is on the bench. I am picking this team to make the playoffs.
Omegax - A Davis, D Williams, J Harden, L Nance, A Bynum, P Gasol
-I think you made the most of trading down with your first two picks. I have never been a big Harden guy, turnovers scare me, but I was pretty on board with your first four picks. I am not a big Bynum fan, unless you are using the low minute season, and Gasol seems like a drafted backup as well. You might be going a different way than I am envisioning, but currently I think you have too much usage. If you are able to get a good low usage center with your last pick, I think you might make the playoffs, but right now I do not think this is a playoff squad.
jt7king - D Wade, E Brand, D Mutombo, B Williams
- I am always a fan of Wade, high usage, passes and plays d. It gives you the option to play a low defense guard who shoots efficiently with him. Your three big guys are maulers. Like Brand and Mutombo was real nice addition. Currently though, I do not see this team being a playoff team.
eleibowitz- C Paul, A Mourning, A Kirilenko, S Dalembert, N Anderson
- I was not around for ele's last pairing of Paul and Zo, but I like this one. I was thrown off by the Nick Anderson pick until I realized you also had AK. AK can pick up what Anderson does not have. I thought Dalembert was a bit of a stretch at that pick, but maybe that's because I wanted him in the 5th. I think this is a playoff team.
98Average - C Barkley, B Walton, R Allen, A Bogut, A Sabonis
- I did not like picking behind 98, because I really wanted Sabonis and Barkley. I imagine his last two picks will be PGs, and there are some ones who can pass really well left. The rotation of Walton, Barkley, Bogut and Sabonis offer some really good seasons. I think this is a playoff team.
BKBIllups - K Durant, S Pippen, A Stoudemire, R Rondo, W Unseld, A Jamison, C Kaman
- Well I will have more to say about this team obviously. I wanted Barkley in the 1st, but Durant felt close to a no brainer with who was left. I was desperately hoping one of those top tier rebounders would fall to me in the 2nd and I almost took Chandler, but went Pippen. Ideally, I wanted Drexler in 3rd and Chandler in 2nd. When Stoudemire was there in the 3rd, it was just too tempting. The three headed monster gives me good scoring. I wanted Cheeks in the 4th so that I would not be so strapped in usage for the 5th pick, but I am happy with Rondo. He does not offer many threes, but I have 340 between Pippen and Durant. Unseld caused me an ulcer simply because I have no defense down low. My hope is the offensive boost will make up for it. Jamison will backup Durant and Kaman will backup Stoudemire. Here's to barely getting in with a 6th seed.
benhoidal - J Stockton, D Green, C Ray, R Westbrook, A Mason, A Horford, J Nelson
- Well there will be plenty of passing going on for ben. I think we were all pretty shocked when Westbrook was picked as the scorer of the team. Your team will rebound nicely and have a 110+? assists % on the floor, but I picked you to miss the playoffs to cjok. I imagine the hope is for the assist bump to send westbrook over the top, but I have not analyzed the assist bump to see when it really kicks in. I imagine anything over 100 definitely helps, but not enough for my stone cold locks. Originally, just based on your ability to build a team, I had you in the playoffs, but lucky for you I left you out.
dh555 - T Duncan, C Billups, T McGrady, H Grant, C Weatherspoon, B Grffin, R Beaubois
- I know you wanted to do the big fundamental proud and I think you did. Big Shot is a great PG and McGrady will be a nice pair to score with Duncan. Grant and Weatherspoon will give just a big enough rebounding boost to matter. Duncan rarely gets used, but has some good seasons. With the right one, I think this is a playoff team.
scudmissle - K Garnett, A Gilmore, G Payton, W Frazier, W Reed, C Alexander, W Williams
- Another team that I would hate to have just because there are so many options for different lineups + I am sure it was not easy to squeeze into this cap. I have always wanted to build a Garnett team and I wanted Gilmore in the 2nd. Payton and Frazier could cause fits for back courts and are a nice tandem. I think this team is a playoff team.
midzim - H Olajuwon, S Kemp, M Cheeks, D Wilkins, D Green, J Dumars, R Tarpley
- This team started off really strong and I liked where they were after two picks and Cheeks is a nice PG, but I was thrown off by the Wilkins pick. I am a huge WIlkins fan, but not in WIS and I think there were better options. Green is a nice choice as a deep threat, but I think he makes for a better SG. Unfortunately I do not think this is a playoff team.
ashmael - M Johnson, M Camby, C Boozer, J Noah, C Drexler, G Hill, J Ruland
- I was really curious where this team was headed and then you snagged Drexler. He gives you the missing piece to a team that wont be up to your standards. To me there is a lot of curiosity to this team, but I think you have the right pieces together to make the playoffs.
ysw128 - J Kidd, H Whiteside, K Love, T Rollins, B Berry, P Pressey, B King
- I love the paring of Love with Whiteside and Rollins. I imagine combined seasons of Pressey/King will play SF, but I do not think there is enough scoring on this team. As good as a backup Rollins is with Love on the floor, it feels like there will not be enough scoring on the floor with Whiteside out. Barry has some extremely efficient seasons, but his usage is not high enough. I think this team misses the playoffs.
uptowngbv - D Jordan, K McHale, M Johnson, K Johnson, K Lowry
- I know you had to be ecstatic about DeAndre falling to you. Another frontcourt paring that I like with Jordan and McHale. Both Johnson's have some efficient scoring seasons. I see Lowry has a good scoring season from 15-16 and has respectable defense. This is an intruiging team, but I don't think there is enough to make it a playoff team.
banditone - B Russell, M Blaylock, B Jones, G Wallace, JR Smith, J Johnson, M Lucas
-I would have rather had Wallace over Russell, but you built yourself a defensive squad with your first 4 picks which gave you room to sacrifice defense with your last three. I am not for sure but I am imagining partial Wallace/Smith/Johnson seasons to cover the 2 and Bobby's backup at the three. Lucas has one good season, but I am not sure it is enough to make this team a contender. I don't see this team as a playoff team.

There you have it. If last season was any indicator, I am sure there will be strong disagreements.

Well I got picked to miss the playoffs for the third time ever. You guys know what that means right? :)

I think it's early to say I'm missing the playoffs when I have three picks left to make, but ok. Wanted to do something different so I went with three guys in my first three picks I haven't used.

Posted by jt7king on 7/25/2016 11:03:00 PM (view original):
I think it's early to say I'm missing the playoffs when I have three picks left to make, but ok. Wanted to do something different so I went with three guys in my first three picks I haven't used.

Your right it is a little too early to judge your team, but with my work schedule for the next week and half, this was my best opportunity to write something.I'll revisit the team after your pick.

Name	Team	Pos	Usage%	2pt%#	3pt%#	eFG%	OReb%	DReb%	Ast%	Stl%	Blk%
		Nate McMillan	93-94 SuperSonics	PG	12.4	47.3	39.4	51.3	2.9	13.8	24.2	5.0	0.7
		Dwyane Wade	08-09 Heat	SG	36.4	52.2	31.3	51.6	3.2	11.6	25.4	2.7	2.2
		Elton Brand	06-07 Clippers	PF	24.7	53.0	100.0	53.3	10.1	17.6	10.6	1.2	3.6
		Buck Williams	81-82 Nets	PF	18.2	57.8	0.0	58.2	13.0	25.7	4.3	1.2	1.7
		Dikembe Mutombo	93-94 Nuggets	C	15.6	56.8	0.0	56.9	10.9	24.1	5.4	0.9	6.6
		Earl Watson	05-06 SuperSonics	PG	19.7	45.9	40.3	53.8	1.7	9.5	23.6	2.0	0.4
		C.J. Miles	13-14 Cavaliers	SG	22.2	47.7	39.1	53.7	1.9	9.2	6.9	2.2	0.9

Starting defense is 95-100-99-70-100. Still need some outside shooters, the team in my draft center has 425 right now. Still tweaking.

C.J.Miles made all the difference, play-offs for you my man