Posted by MikeT23 on 9/6/2016 2:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/6/2016 2:06:00 PM (view original):
Why do you think I complained?

EDIT as in, what makes you think I was the person that complained? How do you know anyone complained?

Sitemail from ADMIN.

...

Posted by bad_luck on 9/7/2016 4:01:00 PM (view original):
Holy ****, you're a ******* liar.

Oops

Oh yeah, Altuve has a .990 fielding%, which is above the league average at 2nd base (.984). I don't know why he has a bad reputation as a fielder because every year, he's had above average, to way above average fielding% at second base. And up until last year, he had above average range too.

And while both Donaldson and Altuve are improving every year,Donaldson is 30 and has probably reached his ceiling.
Altuve is 26 and is entering his prime.

And I'm a walks guy, but I think you can be excused for his lack of walks because he is batting .340. Besides, it's not like he's Tim Anderson (8 walks, 90 Ks).

Maybe someone can put a side by side of their stats, but they are really similar on offense (Altuve a 162 OPS+, Donaldson 158 OPS+) but I'll take Altuve because of his base running and base stealing abilities, and his offensive output as a 2nd basemen, which you don't see much.

If I had to pick one guy for next season, I'd take Donaldson. If I had to pick one guy for the next eight, I'd probably take Altuve. But I could see a scenario where he loses a step or two in the next couple years and suddenly becomes a low power, bad walk rate, left fielder hitting .260/.310/.380.

Either way, it's basically a coin flip this year. I personally prefer Donaldson's defense to Alruve's base running.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/8/2016 1:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 9/8/2016 1:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/8/2016 12:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 9/8/2016 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/8/2016 12:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 9/8/2016 12:29:00 PM (view original):
The problem is you put too much faith in WAR. Whenever there seems to be a discussion about this player or that player the first thing we see from BL is 'WAR'. WAR is imperfect enough at determining who good a player performed. It doesn't tell us how good the player actually is at any particular moment. Or the player's role on any one team. Add to that it doesn't take into account things that are tough to measure like game situations, timing, etc.

If a stat is imperfect at determining performance, how can it really accurately determine ability or future production? It can't. WAR as a one-stop-shop of who is better than who is... meh.

No stat tells you:

how good the player is at any given moment
the player's role on any one team
game situations
ability or future performance

And what stat is perfect at determining performance?

Yup, so your arguments about who is better than who based primarily on WAR are flawed at best. When you throw WAR in our faces (among other exotic stats) you often take the stance that your arguments are irrefutable. I suspect his is because you know most of us won't really spend the time to dig into whether your argument is valid, because we really have little interest in finding out how these exotic stats really work. When you - do - in fact get challenged, you resort to deflection, misdirection, hyperfocusing on the minutia, or anger.

I know you disagree with those statements. So if any of the others would like to come to your defense, I welcome them to do so.

Arguments about who is better than who rely on stats because that's all we really have. Past production.

Other than WAR, most of the time I use triple slash or OPS+. Pretty basic stats that everyone here understands.

Wrong. If you watch the game, understand its nuances, the context of when events occur, then you can add that to analyzing a player. Perhaps it makes it tougher when you are trying to compare Joe Tinker to Derek Jeter, because you might not have a lot of secondary information about Joe Tinker. But comparing two contemporary players - does - allow that kind of insight.

A players true worth or talent is not solely based on his statistics. So arguments about who is better than who can not and should not rely only on stats unless that is all you have.

Jesus Christ, dude.

Fine. Tell me who you think is having a better year between Miguel Cabrera and Nelson Cruz without using any stats.

You obviously didn't read what I said. I didn't say you don't use stats at all to do a comparison. You just don't ONLY use stats. Context is needed if its available.

I feel like you're moving the goalposts. First it was "WAR is terrible because it shows Altuve and Donaldson as having roughly equal years."

Several people point out that it's reasonable to say they're roughly equal and suddenly you shift to, "WAR doesn't tell you who will be better going forward."

When it's pointed out that no stat does that, you go to, "we need more than stats."

Ok, sure. Context is important. Especially if you're predicting future performance. But again, none of this really has anything to do with WAR.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/8/2016 1:41:00 PM (view original):
The issue is settled.

You cried to ADMIN.
You were called on it.
You made a weak effort to cover that up.
You were called on it.
You declare "victory" and refuse any further discussion.

Typical Crybaby Argue Monkey BL tactics.

^^^^^^
This.

Posted by d_rock97 on 9/8/2016 2:17:00 PM (view original):
Oh yeah, Altuve has a .990 fielding%, which is above the league average at 2nd base (.984). I don't know why he has a bad reputation as a fielder because every year, he's had above average, to way above average fielding% at second base. And up until last year, he had above average range too.

And while both Donaldson and Altuve are improving every year,Donaldson is 30 and has probably reached his ceiling.
Altuve is 26 and is entering his prime.

And I'm a walks guy, but I think you can be excused for his lack of walks because he is batting .340. Besides, it's not like he's Tim Anderson (8 walks, 90 Ks).

Maybe someone can put a side by side of their stats, but they are really similar on offense (Altuve a 162 OPS+, Donaldson 158 OPS+) but I'll take Altuve because of his base running and base stealing abilities, and his offensive output as a 2nd basemen, which you don't see much.

I think overall, there are a lot more decent 2B then there have been in years past. Its not like 2B is a desert.

As to basestealing, I think if Donaldson wanted to he could steal 20 bases. He just doesn't do it being a middle of the order bat.

I still take Donaldson's bat over Altuve's ability to steal bases.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/8/2016 1:08:00 PM (view original):
Or, wylie, you could send a complaint ticket.

BL can walk you thru the process.

Nah, not worth complaining about. I just skip over the posts where you and BL call each other liars. It was entertaining for a while, but not anymore.

Posted by sjpoker on 9/8/2016 2:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 9/8/2016 2:17:00 PM (view original):
Oh yeah, Altuve has a .990 fielding%, which is above the league average at 2nd base (.984). I don't know why he has a bad reputation as a fielder because every year, he's had above average, to way above average fielding% at second base. And up until last year, he had above average range too.

And while both Donaldson and Altuve are improving every year,Donaldson is 30 and has probably reached his ceiling.
Altuve is 26 and is entering his prime.

And I'm a walks guy, but I think you can be excused for his lack of walks because he is batting .340. Besides, it's not like he's Tim Anderson (8 walks, 90 Ks).

Maybe someone can put a side by side of their stats, but they are really similar on offense (Altuve a 162 OPS+, Donaldson 158 OPS+) but I'll take Altuve because of his base running and base stealing abilities, and his offensive output as a 2nd basemen, which you don't see much.

I think overall, there are a lot more decent 2B then there have been in years past. Its not like 2B is a desert.

As to basestealing, I think if Donaldson wanted to he could steal 20 bases. He just doesn't do it being a middle of the order bat.

I still take Donaldson's bat over Altuve's ability to steal bases.

I still think Donaldson benefits more from his home ballpark. He's really good, don't get me wrong - but Rogers Centre definitely boosts his numbers. Altuve is a beast on the road.

Posted by Jtpsops on 9/8/2016 3:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 9/8/2016 2:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 9/8/2016 2:17:00 PM (view original):
Oh yeah, Altuve has a .990 fielding%, which is above the league average at 2nd base (.984). I don't know why he has a bad reputation as a fielder because every year, he's had above average, to way above average fielding% at second base. And up until last year, he had above average range too.

And while both Donaldson and Altuve are improving every year,Donaldson is 30 and has probably reached his ceiling.
Altuve is 26 and is entering his prime.

And I'm a walks guy, but I think you can be excused for his lack of walks because he is batting .340. Besides, it's not like he's Tim Anderson (8 walks, 90 Ks).

Maybe someone can put a side by side of their stats, but they are really similar on offense (Altuve a 162 OPS+, Donaldson 158 OPS+) but I'll take Altuve because of his base running and base stealing abilities, and his offensive output as a 2nd basemen, which you don't see much.

I think overall, there are a lot more decent 2B then there have been in years past. Its not like 2B is a desert.

As to basestealing, I think if Donaldson wanted to he could steal 20 bases. He just doesn't do it being a middle of the order bat.

I still take Donaldson's bat over Altuve's ability to steal bases.

I still think Donaldson benefits more from his home ballpark. He's really good, don't get me wrong - but Rogers Centre definitely boosts his numbers. Altuve is a beast on the road.

That's part of the context that's so important. Nolan Arenado's season, for example, would be a hell of a lot more impressive if he played in LA or SD.

I've always maintained Arenado is a product of Coors. He's great defensively and very good offensively, but anytime anyone puts him among the game's elite hitters, I point to his career home and road splits. There is a significant disparity there.

Cheese in a can was an overrated idea.

My argument has everything to do with how BL and many of his stathead friends use WAR. That and WAR being pretty flawed.