Posted by Jtpsops on 9/9/2016 3:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 9/9/2016 3:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 9/9/2016 2:55:00 PM (view original):
I've gotten flack for this before (mostly from dahs) but one guy that has always been a sore spot for me is Nick Markakis. I'm not saying he's the best RF in the league by any means, but in all his years in Baltimore, I can count on one hand the number of times he missed a ball and I thought "Damn. So-and-so would have had that." He was reliable, he didn't make errors and he had a very good arm - routinely among the league leaders in OF assists. And yet most advanced metrics had him as a negative fielder during that time. My eyes and his stats tell me he was a solid-to-good fielder - average at absolute worst. The Orioles never suffered for having him in RF, but the metrics will tell you otherwise.

That's just one example that always sticks with me, but I've seen plenty of others. Even just one-season examples, like when JP Arencibia lead the majors in WAR at C, despite leading the majors in both passed balls and errors behind the plate.

WAR is generally horrible at defense. No one can agree on how to measure it. A guy like Markakis might not have the speed of another RF, but may have the situational awareness to take the best route to the ball. ******* WAR won't help you with that.

And if you are sitting in the 9th inning of fame 7 of the WS with 1 out and a guy on second, do you want a guy who these exotics say is better based on some pretty cloudy methodology or a guy like Markakis who is gonna take the best route to the ball?

JJ Hardy is another guy that fits that mold. He's slow as hell and doesn't have great range, but like Ripken, he positions himself pre-AB as well as any SS in the game. Stuff like that doesn't get reflected either.

Posted by Jtpsops on 9/9/2016 3:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 9/9/2016 3:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 9/9/2016 2:55:00 PM (view original):
I've gotten flack for this before (mostly from dahs) but one guy that has always been a sore spot for me is Nick Markakis. I'm not saying he's the best RF in the league by any means, but in all his years in Baltimore, I can count on one hand the number of times he missed a ball and I thought "Damn. So-and-so would have had that." He was reliable, he didn't make errors and he had a very good arm - routinely among the league leaders in OF assists. And yet most advanced metrics had him as a negative fielder during that time. My eyes and his stats tell me he was a solid-to-good fielder - average at absolute worst. The Orioles never suffered for having him in RF, but the metrics will tell you otherwise.

That's just one example that always sticks with me, but I've seen plenty of others. Even just one-season examples, like when JP Arencibia lead the majors in WAR at C, despite leading the majors in both passed balls and errors behind the plate.

WAR is generally horrible at defense. No one can agree on how to measure it. A guy like Markakis might not have the speed of another RF, but may have the situational awareness to take the best route to the ball. ******* WAR won't help you with that.

And if you are sitting in the 9th inning of fame 7 of the WS with 1 out and a guy on second, do you want a guy who these exotics say is better based on some pretty cloudy methodology or a guy like Markakis who is gonna take the best route to the ball?

JJ Hardy is another guy that fits that mold. He's slow as hell and doesn't have great range, but like Ripken, he positions himself pre-AB as well as any SS in the game. Stuff like that doesn't get reflected either.

Posted by d_rock97 on 9/9/2016 3:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/9/2016 3:07:00 PM (view original):
Will statcast really erase a lot of the uncertainty surrounding fielding?

We will never know if the pitcher was supposed to throw a fastball low and away but ended up on the outside corner. Or if the scouting report was wrong. And if you don't understand how that effects fielding, there's not much I can do for you.

Hopefully that takes off.

Route efficiency and max speed will now determine range, not all these "metrics".

cant wait.