Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 4:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 1:39:00 PM (view original):
No. No artificial limit is in place. Just the prestige difference between divisions was beefed up. Also sims are tougher. So all depends on how much effort other teams put in.

Yes, I just noticed that in Wooden recruiting there is a D2 team being considered by a 4 star, top 10 at his position player. His consideration is at Very Low but the fact that he's on there at all still doesn't seem right. I mean, come on, I know about the whole "realism/realistic" argument, the pros and cons of both sides of the issue but this is one situation that would NEVER happen in real life. I'm quite sure that the D2 team won't even come close to winning the recruit but again, having a 4*, top 10 player even considering a D2 school is ludicrous.

And for what it's worth, this is coming from someone who plays almost exclusively D2 teams and a large majority of the time has either a A or A+ prestige so it's not sour grapes at all. In fact, it's a mistake that would favor teams like mine but even I don't want to see players like that on D2 rosters, even if it was MY team that was able to sign that type of player. I also am not naive enough to think that players like this one will end up falling to D2 teams more than once in a (your time frame of choice), but the problem is that it shouldn't happen EVER.

Emy, if you put 1 attention point on a guy you are automatically very low.

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 4:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 1:39:00 PM (view original):
No. No artificial limit is in place. Just the prestige difference between divisions was beefed up. Also sims are tougher. So all depends on how much effort other teams put in.

I remember reading something about Sims being better and tougher recruiters, does anyone know if the Sim teams basically keep the same strategy of number of open schollies minus 2 when they recruit?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think so. They seem to go for more players and more often. You'll see like 8 SIMs on 1 guy. But then you'll see a guy with zero SIMs. Very strange.

Based on personal observation (and others are free to disagree...)

-- The initial grab of recruits by Sims appear to be strongly random still, however as they start to search for others when they are unable to gain an advantage on their primary target it seems they go in a fairly orderly process that roughly follows the player and positional rankings. I've noticed that as D1 teams search for new targets to go after, that I will often be able to track the flow of several of the Sim schools as they show up on a mid-100s player, then a day or two later on a 200ish player, etc. It happened with too much regularity in the beta for me to think it a random occurrence.

-- I agree with Bemis above. There were far fewer Sim teams with multiple walk-ons in the beta it seemed.

-- For being better and tougher, if you get your foot in the door first it seems like they won't challenge from behind. The only time I've found myself in a race with Sim is when we moved up the ladder together with regard to interest levels. All the kids I've been moderate on that have had Sim come in second appear to take no further action beyond the first inquiry to become "very low" interest. I've never seen one make what I would consider a "significant run" at a kid I was established on at moderate or higher level. (and if someone has a story of Sim doing that, I would be VERY interested to hear it and/or see the details from it...). Sims are more active in searching for targets, which IS better for the game, if not for Sim. I'm certainly not ready to declare them "tougher" recruiters, however.

-- The only "limit' is that D2 coaches can't sign a D1 in the first session. D3 coaches can't sign D2 in the first session and can't sign D1 until the final 24 hours. You'll be held in a flight pattern at "moderate" but my understanding is that you still determine when others who are at Very Low move up and move past you, so continuing to feed AP's won't help you move up past moderate, it can impede the challengers from reaching moderate as easily as you did.

Posted by rednu on 9/18/2016 7:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 4:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 1:39:00 PM (view original):
No. No artificial limit is in place. Just the prestige difference between divisions was beefed up. Also sims are tougher. So all depends on how much effort other teams put in.

I remember reading something about Sims being better and tougher recruiters, does anyone know if the Sim teams basically keep the same strategy of number of open schollies minus 2 when they recruit?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think so. They seem to go for more players and more often. You'll see like 8 SIMs on 1 guy. But then you'll see a guy with zero SIMs. Very strange.

Based on personal observation (and others are free to disagree...)

-- The initial grab of recruits by Sims appear to be strongly random still, however as they start to search for others when they are unable to gain an advantage on their primary target it seems they go in a fairly orderly process that roughly follows the player and positional rankings. I've noticed that as D1 teams search for new targets to go after, that I will often be able to track the flow of several of the Sim schools as they show up on a mid-100s player, then a day or two later on a 200ish player, etc. It happened with too much regularity in the beta for me to think it a random occurrence.

-- I agree with Bemis above. There were far fewer Sim teams with multiple walk-ons in the beta it seemed.

-- For being better and tougher, if you get your foot in the door first it seems like they won't challenge from behind. The only time I've found myself in a race with Sim is when we moved up the ladder together with regard to interest levels. All the kids I've been moderate on that have had Sim come in second appear to take no further action beyond the first inquiry to become "very low" interest. I've never seen one make what I would consider a "significant run" at a kid I was established on at moderate or higher level. (and if someone has a story of Sim doing that, I would be VERY interested to hear it and/or see the details from it...). Sims are more active in searching for targets, which IS better for the game, if not for Sim. I'm certainly not ready to declare them "tougher" recruiters, however.

-- The only "limit' is that D2 coaches can't sign a D1 in the first session. D3 coaches can't sign D2 in the first session and can't sign D1 until the final 24 hours. You'll be held in a flight pattern at "moderate" but my understanding is that you still determine when others who are at Very Low move up and move past you, so continuing to feed AP's won't help you move up past moderate, it can impede the challengers from reaching moderate as easily as you did.

I'm all for stronger sims but I don't like a sim grabbing a player I've been on for a day.

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/18/2016 7:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 4:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 1:39:00 PM (view original):
No. No artificial limit is in place. Just the prestige difference between divisions was beefed up. Also sims are tougher. So all depends on how much effort other teams put in.

I remember reading something about Sims being better and tougher recruiters, does anyone know if the Sim teams basically keep the same strategy of number of open schollies minus 2 when they recruit?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think so. They seem to go for more players and more often. You'll see like 8 SIMs on 1 guy. But then you'll see a guy with zero SIMs. Very strange.

I was on a highly ranked center, I was the only guy on him for 4 cycles and then... VCU (sim ai) pops on him and I now have no chance. I don't like that at all.

You're a D2, you lost a highly rated guy to a D1. You gambled and lost.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, your complaint is ridiculous.

Are you sure you have no chance? I beat D1 sims while at D3. I had to invest a lot but I was able to do it.

Posted by kcsundevil on 9/18/2016 9:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/18/2016 7:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 4:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 1:39:00 PM (view original):
No. No artificial limit is in place. Just the prestige difference between divisions was beefed up. Also sims are tougher. So all depends on how much effort other teams put in.

I remember reading something about Sims being better and tougher recruiters, does anyone know if the Sim teams basically keep the same strategy of number of open schollies minus 2 when they recruit?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think so. They seem to go for more players and more often. You'll see like 8 SIMs on 1 guy. But then you'll see a guy with zero SIMs. Very strange.

I was on a highly ranked center, I was the only guy on him for 4 cycles and then... VCU (sim ai) pops on him and I now have no chance. I don't like that at all.

You're a D2, you lost a highly rated guy to a D1. You gambled and lost.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, your complaint is ridiculous.

Yeah, I kind of have to agree with KC on this one.

Posted by rednu on 9/18/2016 7:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 4:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 1:39:00 PM (view original):
No. No artificial limit is in place. Just the prestige difference between divisions was beefed up. Also sims are tougher. So all depends on how much effort other teams put in.

I remember reading something about Sims being better and tougher recruiters, does anyone know if the Sim teams basically keep the same strategy of number of open schollies minus 2 when they recruit?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think so. They seem to go for more players and more often. You'll see like 8 SIMs on 1 guy. But then you'll see a guy with zero SIMs. Very strange.

Based on personal observation (and others are free to disagree...)

-- The initial grab of recruits by Sims appear to be strongly random still, however as they start to search for others when they are unable to gain an advantage on their primary target it seems they go in a fairly orderly process that roughly follows the player and positional rankings. I've noticed that as D1 teams search for new targets to go after, that I will often be able to track the flow of several of the Sim schools as they show up on a mid-100s player, then a day or two later on a 200ish player, etc. It happened with too much regularity in the beta for me to think it a random occurrence.

-- I agree with Bemis above. There were far fewer Sim teams with multiple walk-ons in the beta it seemed.

-- For being better and tougher, if you get your foot in the door first it seems like they won't challenge from behind. The only time I've found myself in a race with Sim is when we moved up the ladder together with regard to interest levels. All the kids I've been moderate on that have had Sim come in second appear to take no further action beyond the first inquiry to become "very low" interest. I've never seen one make what I would consider a "significant run" at a kid I was established on at moderate or higher level. (and if someone has a story of Sim doing that, I would be VERY interested to hear it and/or see the details from it...). Sims are more active in searching for targets, which IS better for the game, if not for Sim. I'm certainly not ready to declare them "tougher" recruiters, however.

-- The only "limit' is that D2 coaches can't sign a D1 in the first session. D3 coaches can't sign D2 in the first session and can't sign D1 until the final 24 hours. You'll be held in a flight pattern at "moderate" but my understanding is that you still determine when others who are at Very Low move up and move past you, so continuing to feed AP's won't help you move up past moderate, it can impede the challengers from reaching moderate as easily as you did.

This is something I wanted to make sure I was clear on. Normally, in 2.0, at my D2 schools it was almost exclusively drop downs and pull downs (so all D1 players). If I want to continue to recruit nothing but D1 players with my D2 teams, then I'll not be able to actually sign ANYONE until the second session. So, hypothetically, if I'm a D2 team with 5 open schollies and I want to sign 5 D1 players, I run a chance at taking 5 walk-ons, yes? And to those who did the beta, how big of a risk would you think this would be? Thanks again.

Another question that I don't think I've seen asked or answered. Say, for example, there are four teams listed as Very High on a recruits considering list. Do the order of those four show who is leading, second, third, and fourth? Or is it like 2.0 in that they are just listed randomly? Now it's obvious that Very High is ahead of Moderate is ahead of Very Low, but again, what about the order within each category? Anyone? Thanks for the info!!

If I'm on a guy for several cycles with a MODERATE, do I need to keep feeding him home visits if there is no one else on him and he wants to sign EARLY? I am a div 3 team recruiting a div 2 player, if that matters.

Posted by Arfy on 9/19/2016 12:01:00 AM (view original):
If I'm on a guy for several cycles with a MODERATE, do I need to keep feeding him home visits if there is no one else on him and he wants to sign EARLY? I am a div 3 team recruiting a div 2 player, if that matters.

If you're trying to recruit a guy who is designated as being in the next higher level (eg. D3 team, D2 player), then you are stuck at Moderate for the entire first period. The player simply will not sign with you until the second recruiting period, even though his preference is Early. You might have enough to jump to Very High and sign him when the second period starts, and if you trust that no one else will want him in the second period you might take the chance and put no more effort into him for now. It also partly depends on what else you need your AP's and money for, of course. If this guy is critical to your recruiting class and there aren't good alternatives, it is best to be as strong on him as possible even while you are stuck at Moderate.

Posted by Arfy on 9/19/2016 12:01:00 AM (view original):
If I'm on a guy for several cycles with a MODERATE, do I need to keep feeding him home visits if there is no one else on him and he wants to sign EARLY? I am a div 3 team recruiting a div 2 player, if that matters.

Even with the early designation, he won't sign with you until the second session (likely on the first cycle of the second session) because you're a D3 program and he's a D2 recruit. If you're the only person on him (no teams at very low), kicking him additional HV's is probably spending money that you might need for other targets. Use what you already know to determine what others would have to do to catch you -- you know how many AP's it took you to unlock various actions, you know what you've given the kid already as far as promises, HV's, etc., and you know how many total AP's you've got invested in the kid.

The most a team making first contact can do, I believe, is throw 140 AP's at a kid the first turn. How does that compare to what you had to do just to unlock the scholarship in the first place? I would just keep feeding AP's and save the limited cash resource in your pocket until you know it's needed to spend here.

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 11:51:00 PM (view original):
Another question that I don't think I've seen asked or answered. Say, for example, there are four teams listed as Very High on a recruits considering list. Do the order of those four show who is leading, second, third, and fourth? Or is it like 2.0 in that they are just listed randomly? Now it's obvious that Very High is ahead of Moderate is ahead of Very Low, but again, what about the order within each category? Anyone? Thanks for the info!!

My understanding from beta is that the order you see of the teams under the considering list are how they stack up. So No. 1 has the coin flip edge over No. 2, which has more ping pong balls in the lottery bucket than No. 3, etc. I think anyone showing Very High or High has a theoretical chance to win the coin flip for a player.

As for the 5 walk-on question you ask, I would say the odds of it happening are slim to none, and slim is walking out the door as I type this. Remember, you can sign players with just AP's and the scholarship offer, no cash needed. Plus, you can see the coin flip scenarios developing through the player recruiting cards, so you can avoid putting yourself in five coin flip scenarios and rotate on to players that aren't being fought over early in the recruiting process. Yeah, it's theoretically possible I guess, but it would require you to make multiple poor decisions through scouting and recruiting to find yourself in the position. The big thing at D2 and D3 is just avoiding the "battle magnet" players -- those in the top 100 overall & those discovered at the national camps. That alone should keep your coin flips to a minimum.

Everything is looking correct in this thread. You can try to get a recruit from a higher division but you wont sign him until the second recruiting period no matter what his preference is.

I would be careful of one thing. Anyone who tells you they could do something in BETA, make sure you ask which season. Early on, we had no limitations and a bunch of signed up coaches didn't even recruit the second season so we ended up with lots of D3 schools signing top 100 players. In the final two BETA seasons, I don't believe we had even one come close and I don't even remember D2 schools signing those guys. SIM logic was also corrected to find those recruits and adjust as they lost battles.

Posted by rednu on 9/19/2016 2:37:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Arfy on 9/19/2016 12:01:00 AM (view original):
If I'm on a guy for several cycles with a MODERATE, do I need to keep feeding him home visits if there is no one else on him and he wants to sign EARLY? I am a div 3 team recruiting a div 2 player, if that matters.

Even with the early designation, he won't sign with you until the second session (likely on the first cycle of the second session) because you're a D3 program and he's a D2 recruit. If you're the only person on him (no teams at very low), kicking him additional HV's is probably spending money that you might need for other targets. Use what you already know to determine what others would have to do to catch you -- you know how many AP's it took you to unlock various actions, you know what you've given the kid already as far as promises, HV's, etc., and you know how many total AP's you've got invested in the kid.

The most a team making first contact can do, I believe, is throw 140 AP's at a kid the first turn. How does that compare to what you had to do just to unlock the scholarship in the first place? I would just keep feeding AP's and save the limited cash resource in your pocket until you know it's needed to spend here.

I totally forgot about the part of a player not signing until the second session if he is a level up from you.

By 'feeding' him AP's, you mean just leaving the high # of AP's that I already assigned to him there? Right?

Posted by Arfy on 9/19/2016 7:39:00 AM (view original):

Posted by rednu on 9/19/2016 2:37:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Arfy on 9/19/2016 12:01:00 AM (view original):
If I'm on a guy for several cycles with a MODERATE, do I need to keep feeding him home visits if there is no one else on him and he wants to sign EARLY? I am a div 3 team recruiting a div 2 player, if that matters.

Even with the early designation, he won't sign with you until the second session (likely on the first cycle of the second session) because you're a D3 program and he's a D2 recruit. If you're the only person on him (no teams at very low), kicking him additional HV's is probably spending money that you might need for other targets. Use what you already know to determine what others would have to do to catch you -- you know how many AP's it took you to unlock various actions, you know what you've given the kid already as far as promises, HV's, etc., and you know how many total AP's you've got invested in the kid.

The most a team making first contact can do, I believe, is throw 140 AP's at a kid the first turn. How does that compare to what you had to do just to unlock the scholarship in the first place? I would just keep feeding AP's and save the limited cash resource in your pocket until you know it's needed to spend here.

I totally forgot about the part of a player not signing until the second session if he is a level up from you.

By 'feeding' him AP's, you mean just leaving the high # of AP's that I already assigned to him there? Right?

Correct. It will keep the other teams at Very Low even though you're stuck at moderate.