Posted by kcsundevil on 9/18/2016 9:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/18/2016 7:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 4:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 1:39:00 PM (view original):
No. No artificial limit is in place. Just the prestige difference between divisions was beefed up. Also sims are tougher. So all depends on how much effort other teams put in.

I remember reading something about Sims being better and tougher recruiters, does anyone know if the Sim teams basically keep the same strategy of number of open schollies minus 2 when they recruit?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think so. They seem to go for more players and more often. You'll see like 8 SIMs on 1 guy. But then you'll see a guy with zero SIMs. Very strange.

I was on a highly ranked center, I was the only guy on him for 4 cycles and then... VCU (sim ai) pops on him and I now have no chance. I don't like that at all.

You're a D2, you lost a highly rated guy to a D1. You gambled and lost.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, your complaint is ridiculous.

I'll withdraw my complaint because the sim actually hasn't offered a ship yet.

Posted by rednu on 9/19/2016 2:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 11:51:00 PM (view original):
Another question that I don't think I've seen asked or answered. Say, for example, there are four teams listed as Very High on a recruits considering list. Do the order of those four show who is leading, second, third, and fourth? Or is it like 2.0 in that they are just listed randomly? Now it's obvious that Very High is ahead of Moderate is ahead of Very Low, but again, what about the order within each category? Anyone? Thanks for the info!!

My understanding from beta is that the order you see of the teams under the considering list are how they stack up. So No. 1 has the coin flip edge over No. 2, which has more ping pong balls in the lottery bucket than No. 3, etc. I think anyone showing Very High or High has a theoretical chance to win the coin flip for a player.

As for the 5 walk-on question you ask, I would say the odds of it happening are slim to none, and slim is walking out the door as I type this. Remember, you can sign players with just AP's and the scholarship offer, no cash needed. Plus, you can see the coin flip scenarios developing through the player recruiting cards, so you can avoid putting yourself in five coin flip scenarios and rotate on to players that aren't being fought over early in the recruiting process. Yeah, it's theoretically possible I guess, but it would require you to make multiple poor decisions through scouting and recruiting to find yourself in the position. The big thing at D2 and D3 is just avoiding the "battle magnet" players -- those in the top 100 overall & those discovered at the national camps. That alone should keep your coin flips to a minimum.

Rednu, not saying that you're not right but I just went through several of the top 100 players and every example I saw had teams within the same ranges listed alphabetically.

First of all, lets discuss how horrible it is that there are only 1.18 recruits per opening. Wave goodbye to your jucos! There are almost no open recruits so I kissed goodbye my plan to recruit 3 guys and wait for the fourth guy, but I cant do that. Most humans recruit for their openings + 1 so they have a backup option if they don't want to battle. There are almost no open recruits. I have 2 guys who are pretty nice players with only me recruiting them "locked up." I am in three battles: two with DII humans and 1 with a DI sim. I have such a great match wit preferences (A total of 3 very goods and 6 goods with no bads or very bads) I may be able to take all three guys. My strategy is to go "all in" on the two battles against humans (I will be short 2 hvs) and put about 1,000 AP on the guy I am in a battle for against the sim (and no money). If I lose one of those three battles, I will take both of my backups, if I lose two, I will take a walk-on.

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 11:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rednu on 9/18/2016 7:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 4:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 1:39:00 PM (view original):
No. No artificial limit is in place. Just the prestige difference between divisions was beefed up. Also sims are tougher. So all depends on how much effort other teams put in.

I remember reading something about Sims being better and tougher recruiters, does anyone know if the Sim teams basically keep the same strategy of number of open schollies minus 2 when they recruit?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think so. They seem to go for more players and more often. You'll see like 8 SIMs on 1 guy. But then you'll see a guy with zero SIMs. Very strange.

Based on personal observation (and others are free to disagree...)

-- The initial grab of recruits by Sims appear to be strongly random still, however as they start to search for others when they are unable to gain an advantage on their primary target it seems they go in a fairly orderly process that roughly follows the player and positional rankings. I've noticed that as D1 teams search for new targets to go after, that I will often be able to track the flow of several of the Sim schools as they show up on a mid-100s player, then a day or two later on a 200ish player, etc. It happened with too much regularity in the beta for me to think it a random occurrence.

-- I agree with Bemis above. There were far fewer Sim teams with multiple walk-ons in the beta it seemed.

-- For being better and tougher, if you get your foot in the door first it seems like they won't challenge from behind. The only time I've found myself in a race with Sim is when we moved up the ladder together with regard to interest levels. All the kids I've been moderate on that have had Sim come in second appear to take no further action beyond the first inquiry to become "very low" interest. I've never seen one make what I would consider a "significant run" at a kid I was established on at moderate or higher level. (and if someone has a story of Sim doing that, I would be VERY interested to hear it and/or see the details from it...). Sims are more active in searching for targets, which IS better for the game, if not for Sim. I'm certainly not ready to declare them "tougher" recruiters, however.

-- The only "limit' is that D2 coaches can't sign a D1 in the first session. D3 coaches can't sign D2 in the first session and can't sign D1 until the final 24 hours. You'll be held in a flight pattern at "moderate" but my understanding is that you still determine when others who are at Very Low move up and move past you, so continuing to feed AP's won't help you move up past moderate, it can impede the challengers from reaching moderate as easily as you did.

This is something I wanted to make sure I was clear on. Normally, in 2.0, at my D2 schools it was almost exclusively drop downs and pull downs (so all D1 players). If I want to continue to recruit nothing but D1 players with my D2 teams, then I'll not be able to actually sign ANYONE until the second session. So, hypothetically, if I'm a D2 team with 5 open schollies and I want to sign 5 D1 players, I run a chance at taking 5 walk-ons, yes? And to those who did the beta, how big of a risk would you think this would be? Thanks again.

In Beta, I exclusively went after D1 players at D2 and it worked out great. But, I am not sure if it will be the same in the real game.

Posted by emy1013 on 9/19/2016 10:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by rednu on 9/19/2016 2:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 11:51:00 PM (view original):
Another question that I don't think I've seen asked or answered. Say, for example, there are four teams listed as Very High on a recruits considering list. Do the order of those four show who is leading, second, third, and fourth? Or is it like 2.0 in that they are just listed randomly? Now it's obvious that Very High is ahead of Moderate is ahead of Very Low, but again, what about the order within each category? Anyone? Thanks for the info!!

My understanding from beta is that the order you see of the teams under the considering list are how they stack up. So No. 1 has the coin flip edge over No. 2, which has more ping pong balls in the lottery bucket than No. 3, etc. I think anyone showing Very High or High has a theoretical chance to win the coin flip for a player.

As for the 5 walk-on question you ask, I would say the odds of it happening are slim to none, and slim is walking out the door as I type this. Remember, you can sign players with just AP's and the scholarship offer, no cash needed. Plus, you can see the coin flip scenarios developing through the player recruiting cards, so you can avoid putting yourself in five coin flip scenarios and rotate on to players that aren't being fought over early in the recruiting process. Yeah, it's theoretically possible I guess, but it would require you to make multiple poor decisions through scouting and recruiting to find yourself in the position. The big thing at D2 and D3 is just avoiding the "battle magnet" players -- those in the top 100 overall & those discovered at the national camps. That alone should keep your coin flips to a minimum.

Rednu, not saying that you're not right but I just went through several of the top 100 players and every example I saw had teams within the same ranges listed alphabetically.

Well, that was my understanding...it just wasn't reality :)
=============
From the beta test forum boards (8/4/2016)...

Pseudochamp: "When looking at a recruit's Considering tab, does the order of schools listed have any significance? If there are multiple schools listed at "Very High", is the first school listed currently ahead on effort or is it unknown? Thanks in advance."

Seble: "The order within an interest level group is random."
=============

So "random" evidently means "alphabetical"...apologies for the incorrect impression.

I have three recruits with only me on them that as my secondary options. I will assume going all in on the two guys I am battling for will win both of them in which case I sign two of my backup options. I win one battle, I will sign three of my secondary options.

POSSIBLE BUG:
I withdrew a couple HVs but I is still counted on the recruit considering page. I wonder if that will limit my 20 HVs.

So, is recruiting at D2 much more difficult than it was in Beta. I found it really easy to get quality D1 players at D2 in Beta.

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 4:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 1:39:00 PM (view original):
No. No artificial limit is in place. Just the prestige difference between divisions was beefed up. Also sims are tougher. So all depends on how much effort other teams put in.

Yes, I just noticed that in Wooden recruiting there is a D2 team being considered by a 4 star, top 10 at his position player. His consideration is at Very Low but the fact that he's on there at all still doesn't seem right. I mean, come on, I know about the whole "realism/realistic" argument, the pros and cons of both sides of the issue but this is one situation that would NEVER happen in real life. I'm quite sure that the D2 team won't even come close to winning the recruit but again, having a 4*, top 10 player even considering a D2 school is ludicrous.

And for what it's worth, this is coming from someone who plays almost exclusively D2 teams and a large majority of the time has either a A or A+ prestige so it's not sour grapes at all. In fact, it's a mistake that would favor teams like mine but even I don't want to see players like that on D2 rosters, even if it was MY team that was able to sign that type of player. I also am not naive enough to think that players like this one will end up falling to D2 teams more than once in a (your time frame of choice), but the problem is that it shouldn't happen EVER.

So, if no one else is recruiting him, teams who notice should not be able to try. He will not get the guy if any good DI team wants him. Otherwise he might be able to. Really good players have to go play at lower levels all the time (gets in trouble on campus, with the police, family has medical issues and wants to move close to home, etc.).

I have no issue with it .. if people aren't recruiting him he should go to a human coach somewhere.

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/20/2016 10:30:00 AM (view original):
I have three recruits with only me on them that as my secondary options. I will assume going all in on the two guys I am battling for will win both of them in which case I sign two of my backup options. I win one battle, I will sign three of my secondary options.

POSSIBLE BUG:
I withdrew a couple HVs but I is still counted on the recruit considering page. I wonder if that will limit my 20 HVs.

Is it 20 HV's total or 20 HV's "per recruit"? I'm 100% sure it's 20 for each recruit Cub, not total.

Posted by hughesjr on 9/21/2016 9:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 4:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 1:39:00 PM (view original):
No. No artificial limit is in place. Just the prestige difference between divisions was beefed up. Also sims are tougher. So all depends on how much effort other teams put in.

Yes, I just noticed that in Wooden recruiting there is a D2 team being considered by a 4 star, top 10 at his position player. His consideration is at Very Low but the fact that he's on there at all still doesn't seem right. I mean, come on, I know about the whole "realism/realistic" argument, the pros and cons of both sides of the issue but this is one situation that would NEVER happen in real life. I'm quite sure that the D2 team won't even come close to winning the recruit but again, having a 4*, top 10 player even considering a D2 school is ludicrous.

And for what it's worth, this is coming from someone who plays almost exclusively D2 teams and a large majority of the time has either a A or A+ prestige so it's not sour grapes at all. In fact, it's a mistake that would favor teams like mine but even I don't want to see players like that on D2 rosters, even if it was MY team that was able to sign that type of player. I also am not naive enough to think that players like this one will end up falling to D2 teams more than once in a (your time frame of choice), but the problem is that it shouldn't happen EVER.

So, if no one else is recruiting him, teams who notice should not be able to try. He will not get the guy if any good DI team wants him. Otherwise he might be able to. Really good players have to go play at lower levels all the time (gets in trouble on campus, with the police, family has medical issues and wants to move close to home, etc.).

I have no issue with it .. if people aren't recruiting him he should go to a human coach somewhere.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Hughes. I would think it would be more appropriate for a player of that level to go JuCo and try for D1 again next season as opposed to going to a D2 school.

Posted by emy1013 on 9/21/2016 11:09:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/20/2016 10:30:00 AM (view original):
I have three recruits with only me on them that as my secondary options. I will assume going all in on the two guys I am battling for will win both of them in which case I sign two of my backup options. I win one battle, I will sign three of my secondary options.

POSSIBLE BUG:
I withdrew a couple HVs but I is still counted on the recruit considering page. I wonder if that will limit my 20 HVs.

Is it 20 HV's total or 20 HV's "per recruit"? I'm 100% sure it's 20 for each recruit Cub, not total.

Thanks, Emy, I didn't write that as clearly as I should have.


--I withdrew a couple HVs but I is still counted on the recruit considering history page. I wonder if that will limit my 20 HVs on that recruit.

Posted by emy1013 on 9/21/2016 11:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 9/21/2016 9:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/18/2016 4:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 9/18/2016 1:39:00 PM (view original):
No. No artificial limit is in place. Just the prestige difference between divisions was beefed up. Also sims are tougher. So all depends on how much effort other teams put in.

Yes, I just noticed that in Wooden recruiting there is a D2 team being considered by a 4 star, top 10 at his position player. His consideration is at Very Low but the fact that he's on there at all still doesn't seem right. I mean, come on, I know about the whole "realism/realistic" argument, the pros and cons of both sides of the issue but this is one situation that would NEVER happen in real life. I'm quite sure that the D2 team won't even come close to winning the recruit but again, having a 4*, top 10 player even considering a D2 school is ludicrous.

And for what it's worth, this is coming from someone who plays almost exclusively D2 teams and a large majority of the time has either a A or A+ prestige so it's not sour grapes at all. In fact, it's a mistake that would favor teams like mine but even I don't want to see players like that on D2 rosters, even if it was MY team that was able to sign that type of player. I also am not naive enough to think that players like this one will end up falling to D2 teams more than once in a (your time frame of choice), but the problem is that it shouldn't happen EVER.

So, if no one else is recruiting him, teams who notice should not be able to try. He will not get the guy if any good DI team wants him. Otherwise he might be able to. Really good players have to go play at lower levels all the time (gets in trouble on campus, with the police, family has medical issues and wants to move close to home, etc.).

I have no issue with it .. if people aren't recruiting him he should go to a human coach somewhere.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Hughes. I would think it would be more appropriate for a player of that level to go JuCo and try for D1 again next season as opposed to going to a D2 school.

In real life, this stuff happens (edit) with mid-majors (end edit). Kay Felder. (edit) If a top 100 guy goes to a C+ Cal Team, then he should not go juco (end edit). If a top 100 guy falls to DII, then we have a problem. (edit)With that said, (end edit) I don't think that will ever happen (edit) in real life or HD (end edit).

Posted by emy1013 on 9/21/2016 11:09:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/20/2016 10:30:00 AM (view original):
I have three recruits with only me on them that as my secondary options. I will assume going all in on the two guys I am battling for will win both of them in which case I sign two of my backup options. I win one battle, I will sign three of my secondary options.

POSSIBLE BUG:
I withdrew a couple HVs but I is still counted on the recruit considering page. I wonder if that will limit my 20 HVs.

Is it 20 HV's total or 20 HV's "per recruit"? I'm 100% sure it's 20 for each recruit Cub, not total.

You are correct .. 20 max per recruit.

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/21/2016 12:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/21/2016 11:09:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/20/2016 10:30:00 AM (view original):
I have three recruits with only me on them that as my secondary options. I will assume going all in on the two guys I am battling for will win both of them in which case I sign two of my backup options. I win one battle, I will sign three of my secondary options.

POSSIBLE BUG:
I withdrew a couple HVs but I is still counted on the recruit considering page. I wonder if that will limit my 20 HVs.

Is it 20 HV's total or 20 HV's "per recruit"? I'm 100% sure it's 20 for each recruit Cub, not total.

Thanks, Emy, I didn't write that as clearly as I should have.


--I withdrew a couple HVs but I is still counted on the recruit considering history page. I wonder if that will limit my 20 HVs on that recruit.

it does not effect your 20 HV. i guess a minor bug in that it registers as a home visit on the recruit history page AND it tallies it up in your budget spent on the player. see below from one of my HD3 recruits...obviously i did not (And could not) do 42 home visits, and the budget spent amount it shows was as if i had done 42 HV. i did the 20 max on this player.

Budget Spent:$11,114

Posted by bathtubhippo on 9/21/2016 3:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/21/2016 12:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/21/2016 11:09:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/20/2016 10:30:00 AM (view original):
I have three recruits with only me on them that as my secondary options. I will assume going all in on the two guys I am battling for will win both of them in which case I sign two of my backup options. I win one battle, I will sign three of my secondary options.

POSSIBLE BUG:
I withdrew a couple HVs but I is still counted on the recruit considering page. I wonder if that will limit my 20 HVs.

Is it 20 HV's total or 20 HV's "per recruit"? I'm 100% sure it's 20 for each recruit Cub, not total.

Thanks, Emy, I didn't write that as clearly as I should have.


--I withdrew a couple HVs but I is still counted on the recruit considering history page. I wonder if that will limit my 20 HVs on that recruit.

it does not effect your 20 HV. i guess a minor bug in that it registers as a home visit on the recruit history page AND it tallies it up in your budget spent on the player. see below from one of my HD3 recruits...obviously i did not (And could not) do 42 home visits, and the budget spent amount it shows was as if i had done 42 HV. i did the 20 max on this player.

Budget Spent:$11,114

Home Visits:42

Campus Visits:1

Thank man! Super helpful!