Posted by dahsdebater on 9/28/2016 2:01:00 PM (view original):
I think a lot of people are ignoring the possibility that some of the irritated owners actively want to see the game suffer/die as a result of the updates. People are vengeful by nature. If some long-term users feel wronged by WIS, they may want to actively undermine the future of the game. I'm not in that camp because I want to keep playing SLB and see WIS not fold, but I can see where that could be a motivating factor. Just saying "whining isn't good for anybody" over and over doesn't have a lot of impact if the goal is for the whining to be bad for the company and the game.

One of 'em got banned from the forums for that. Do you think maybe more should be banned? It's a thought, isn't it? I would rather see WIS moderate the forums for a while, but you certainly make an interesting point.

if one poster posts a lot of incorrect information about game play

and another poster criticizes the game

who is the one who is most trying to hurt the game?

just thinking.

There's only one current user I would want banned now. Ironically.

Posted by poncho0091 on 9/28/2016 3:58:00 PM (view original):
Spud, I guess you should be moderated after starting a thread to tell one of your many successful mentors that he did nothing but lie to you, when in reality, you didn't do what he told you to do, and didn't have a clue how to actually play. The fact that you were giving so much feedback during the beta was part of the issue considering you were giving feedback on something you didn't even know about.

I love the guys on here complaining about the forums, then making a reference to a guide on the forums. Everything you guys detailed as issues were cosmetic in nature. Even better is when you complain that the current game couldn't hold or bring in new members when in reality the game wasn't being advertised and was minimally supported.

While some of you believe people want to see the game fail, I think it's more that some people just don't want to lose a good game.

poncho, poncho, poncho, you've got me totally mixed up with someone else (Ward). Apologies accepted.

"Yeah, what I take to be the goal (and what I think should be the goal) is this: if preferences are even, prestige is as effective as it was in 2.0. A preference advantage one way or the other can either mitigate or exacerbate a prestige advantage."

Pretty well stated, tarvolon, and I think that's about how it is. That may not satisfy many because that means prestige is still too powerful of a factor to some people and not powerful enough to others.

Posted by CoachSpud on 9/28/2016 4:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 9/28/2016 3:58:00 PM (view original):
Spud, I guess you should be moderated after starting a thread to tell one of your many successful mentors that he did nothing but lie to you, when in reality, you didn't do what he told you to do, and didn't have a clue how to actually play. The fact that you were giving so much feedback during the beta was part of the issue considering you were giving feedback on something you didn't even know about.

I love the guys on here complaining about the forums, then making a reference to a guide on the forums. Everything you guys detailed as issues were cosmetic in nature. Even better is when you complain that the current game couldn't hold or bring in new members when in reality the game wasn't being advertised and was minimally supported.

While some of you believe people want to see the game fail, I think it's more that some people just don't want to lose a good game.

poncho, poncho, poncho, you've got me totally mixed up with someone else (Ward). Apologies accepted.

There is a high probability you two are the same person. Not very high, but high.

It's certainly on the list of theories of "Who is Spud really??"

I mean, when Ward created a thread calling out Spud as being another user called Spudlicious. Wow. Genius misdirection there.

I can't believe Spud is Ward. Ward has very poor grammar, horrible spelling. It's difficult to fake that without doing it obviously.

Posted by tarvolon on 9/28/2016 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/28/2016 12:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tarvolon on 9/28/2016 10:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/28/2016 4:31:00 AM (view original):

Marketing
Shortly after the final two worlds upgrade to 3.0, we will begin a marketing campaign to drive new owners into the game. This will involve both the WhatIfSports and FOX Sports properties. We have a great game that is now available to play on any device and is easier for newcomers to comprehend and enjoy. Combine this with our helpful, veteran user base and we should expect to see fuller worlds with greater competition than ever before

Good to know that the staff is totally out of touch. The new game is in absolutely no way "easier for newcomers to comprehend and enjoy," nor will newcomers at this point find an overly helpful user base in the forums. Not to mention, "fuller worlds with greater competition than ever before." TZ has been here since the worlds were full. How can they be fuller than that? Is his memory really that short, or has he totally given over to supporting the company line with politically-motivated bullshit?

The upset user base is a fair point, but I can't help but think that everyone repeating the "this is in no way easier for newcomers" line doesn't remember being a newcomer.

When I joined the game, I didn't realize that FSS was necessary for quality recruiting, and the Player's Guide was giving advice for the game pre-potential. I thought the "probably best to look elsewhere" message from my assistant actually meant that I should look elsewhere. HD 2.0 is in no way friendly to new users.

Scouting may take more time or more trial and error now, but at least new users know it's important and aren't dealing with messages providing active misinformation.

I guess everyone has their own experience. I made the mistake of starting out at a school with 8 open scholarships, but my first recruiting class did take me to the NT and within a year I had a couple of good teams and had won about half a dozen NT games. I'm not saying I was as good then as I am now, but I got decent pretty fast.

My first recruiting class also took me to the NT, and I won my first title in my eighth season, so I didn't feel personally held back all that much by the false or misleading information.

That said, nothing was intuitive or well-explained. In 3.0, things are explained much better. Now if a new coach wants to get really, really good really fast, they're going to have to visit the forums, like they did in the old game. But in 3.0, a coach who doesn't visit the forums will be able to start playing and trying things out. Might take a while to figure out winning strategies, but they'll be actively doing things. In 2.0, you had to figure out all of recruiting (without being told about dropdowns/pulldowns, or that you might as well not bother without FSS, or that "best to look elsewhere" actually means the recruit is interested in hearing more) in less than a week, and then you had a month to sit on your hands until you could try again.

People like me (and presumably you) who search for every last bit of information (including but not limited to reading the forums) were fine with 2.0. But 2.0 had a serious new player retention problem, and it's because not everyone is like you and me. I fully expect 3.0 to be a massive improvement on that front. Even if it's harder to become an expert, it'll be easier to feel like you're doing something.

Talk about getting good fast, I'd just get a mentor like I did:

2-16 halfway through the conference play

Start talking with Hughes Jr, start game planning more and changing my distro per the defense

finish a respectable 7-20 with a 134 RPI

Talk with Muskies85 about recruiting

Sign an absolutely incredible class (highlighted by Lux and Weiss) which has been the heart of my Team he past two years

Make my first postseason appearance, 16-13 with a 75 RPI lose in first round of PI.

Sign another quality player, Jewell.

Make my first NT appearance and sweep an Emy recruited (I think they shot 3-18 from three twice in a row--No luck involved :)) DII team and make the Finals of the conference tournament in the third hardest conference in Wooden DII. Lose a heartbreaker as a five seed in the first round of the NT, I had a dunk to win.

In the last 2.0 period I sign a good juco and an incredible freshman.

I have a 3 loss regular season + conference tournament and go 5-1 against top 25 teams including three wins verses #6 in the country Lewis on my way to the fifth overall seed. As I two seed I eek out a victory in the 1st round before losing in the second round to a very good 30-1 team.

Overall, I had extreme luck in the past two years but also built a team that complements each other really well. The best way to get good quickly is to pick other's brains.

My thoughts...
*I am an irritated owner, but in no way do I want this game to die. Actually, my irritation with the powers-to-be has waned significantly, enough to where I may give 3.0 a few more seasons. I just don't want to walk away, no matter how bad the perception of nuHD is. I love this game.
*The Forums are toxic, no doubt. Blocking a few users has lessened that toxicity for me. Off-hand insults with every post response is SOP for some...as a community we don't need that.
*Hopefully the new guys at HD listen to the Coaches a bit more this time around.

Latest conspiracy theory: Ted Cruz and Queen Elizabeth of England are one and the same person. They have never been seen in the same room at the same time. That, by the way, is a more plausible theory than any other espoused in this thread.

Posted by p6453 on 9/28/2016 6:23:00 PM (view original):
My thoughts...
*I am an irritated owner, but in no way do I want this game to die. Actually, my irritation with the powers-to-be has waned significantly, enough to where I may give 3.0 a few more seasons. I just don't want to walk away, no matter how bad the perception of nuHD is. I love this game.
*The Forums are toxic, no doubt. Blocking a few users has lessened that toxicity for me. Off-hand insults with every post response is SOP for some...as a community we don't need that.
*Hopefully the new guys at HD listen to the Coaches a bit more this time around.

I hope more of the subset of coaches promising to walk away will continue to give it a chance. The adjustment of process and expectations takes a few seasons, but it has been getting better for me as it goes along.

Along those lines, I'm reminded of another game I love, Sid Meier's Civilization series. The 6th version is coming out soon, and I've played them all. And every version, I go through the same steps: This looks cool! Wait why did they change this thing? WHY IS MY FAVORITE THING GONE??! They've totally ruined my favorite game, but I'll keep playing. Hold on, this is fun. Then eventually I don't even remember what I missed.

The curve has been shorter for me for HD3, but it's probably because I was more tolerating the old version than really enjoying it.

Posted by kcsundevil on 9/28/2016 4:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachSpud on 9/28/2016 4:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 9/28/2016 3:58:00 PM (view original):
Spud, I guess you should be moderated after starting a thread to tell one of your many successful mentors that he did nothing but lie to you, when in reality, you didn't do what he told you to do, and didn't have a clue how to actually play. The fact that you were giving so much feedback during the beta was part of the issue considering you were giving feedback on something you didn't even know about.

I love the guys on here complaining about the forums, then making a reference to a guide on the forums. Everything you guys detailed as issues were cosmetic in nature. Even better is when you complain that the current game couldn't hold or bring in new members when in reality the game wasn't being advertised and was minimally supported.

While some of you believe people want to see the game fail, I think it's more that some people just don't want to lose a good game.

poncho, poncho, poncho, you've got me totally mixed up with someone else (Ward). Apologies accepted.

There is a high probability you two are the same person. Not very high, but high.

So, basically, it's a coin-flip. :-)

Posted by CoachSpud on 9/28/2016 4:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 9/28/2016 3:58:00 PM (view original):
Spud, I guess you should be moderated after starting a thread to tell one of your many successful mentors that he did nothing but lie to you, when in reality, you didn't do what he told you to do, and didn't have a clue how to actually play. The fact that you were giving so much feedback during the beta was part of the issue considering you were giving feedback on something you didn't even know about.

I love the guys on here complaining about the forums, then making a reference to a guide on the forums. Everything you guys detailed as issues were cosmetic in nature. Even better is when you complain that the current game couldn't hold or bring in new members when in reality the game wasn't being advertised and was minimally supported.

While some of you believe people want to see the game fail, I think it's more that some people just don't want to lose a good game.

poncho, poncho, poncho, you've got me totally mixed up with someone else (Ward). Apologies accepted.

My bad. Your names are too similar.