And to think. We are solving the country's tax problems on the 'Non-Sports' section of the WIS forums. Amazing.

And you went from 35k differences to 60k and 80k.

Posted by sjpoker on 9/29/2016 4:48:00 PM (view original):
And to think. We are solving the country's tax problems on the 'Non-Sports' section of the WIS forums. Amazing.

I don't think we are. I think we're creating new problems.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/29/2016 4:43:00 PM (view original):
Businesses look for a way to get the most bang for their buck. You obviously have to pay people but that's an expense that is "sunk". I buy a truck, it depreciates and makes me money at the same time. I buy a new computer or office supplies, it's a write-off. More tax tiers gives me more options to manipulate payroll and put money in different places.

But it doesn't really. Because tiers are based on taxable income, not raw gross pay. Two employees might both have the same salary and significantly different taxable income depending on their situation.

Your argument is bullshit with zero basis in reality. And you know that if you actually have employees.

I'd elect PSBL as President if it meant he's STFU about WAR.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/29/2016 4:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/29/2016 4:43:00 PM (view original):
Businesses look for a way to get the most bang for their buck. You obviously have to pay people but that's an expense that is "sunk". I buy a truck, it depreciates and makes me money at the same time. I buy a new computer or office supplies, it's a write-off. More tax tiers gives me more options to manipulate payroll and put money in different places.

But it doesn't really. Because tiers are based on taxable income, not raw gross pay. Two employees might both have the same salary and significantly different taxable income depending on their situation.

Your argument is bullshit with zero basis in reality. And you know that if you actually have employees.

I'll ask again. Do you think business owners use accountants? Do you think the accountants know the tiers?

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/29/2016 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/29/2016 4:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/29/2016 4:43:00 PM (view original):
Businesses look for a way to get the most bang for their buck. You obviously have to pay people but that's an expense that is "sunk". I buy a truck, it depreciates and makes me money at the same time. I buy a new computer or office supplies, it's a write-off. More tax tiers gives me more options to manipulate payroll and put money in different places.

But it doesn't really. Because tiers are based on taxable income, not raw gross pay. Two employees might both have the same salary and significantly different taxable income depending on their situation.

Your argument is bullshit with zero basis in reality. And you know that if you actually have employees.

I'll ask again. Do you think business owners use accountants? Do you think the accountants know the tiers?

Of course the accountants know the tiers. What they don't know is how much each employee saves for retirement, or writes off for mortgage interest, or writes off for daycare, puts away in a kids college savings account.

Jesus Christ. You claim to be a business owner. I genuinely doubt that claim right now.

I know what I can "sell" to an employee as better for them. Their daycare and college accounts don't mean a whole lot to me. Do you think your employer care about your kid's college fund? Hint: He doesn't. He wants to pay you as little as possible and will tell you what you need to hear to make it happen. If I say "If I pay you more, you'll fall into another tax bracket. How about an extra day off in December?", maybe they're toddcomm and think 74k at 10% is more than 75k at 20%.

I'm not sure you what you claim to be but you're not a people person. You couldn't sell ice cubes in hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=junBJZRDFzk

No incentive to make more money. Some years, if we (my wife and I) could have made just $4,000 less (gross), then we would have had an extra $2,000 in our own pocket. We try very hard to get under that number for the past few years. So we take advantage of loopholes in the tax code (yes it is on the level) to wrangle it under it. Of course in Mass. we have a flat tax so we wouldn't care about loopholes and just pay our fair share.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/29/2016 5:08:00 PM (view original):
I know what I can "sell" to an employee as better for them. Their daycare and college accounts don't mean a whole lot to me. Do you think your employer care about your kid's college fund? Hint: He doesn't. He wants to pay you as little as possible and will tell you what you need to hear to make it happen. If I say "If I pay you more, you'll fall into another tax bracket. How about an extra day off in December?", maybe they're toddcomm and think 74k at 10% is more than 75k at 20%.

I'm not sure you what you claim to be but you're not a people person. You couldn't sell ice cubes in hell.

It's not that you care about the savings or daycare write off or whatever, it's that you don't know where the tier is for that employee.

They might get $80k a year and still only have a taxable income of $50k. If you come at them with, "you should take $5k less to save on taxes," they're going to laugh in your face.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/29/2016 5:08:00 PM (view original):
I know what I can "sell" to an employee as better for them. Their daycare and college accounts don't mean a whole lot to me. Do you think your employer care about your kid's college fund? Hint: He doesn't. He wants to pay you as little as possible and will tell you what you need to hear to make it happen. If I say "If I pay you more, you'll fall into another tax bracket. How about an extra day off in December?", maybe they're toddcomm and think 74k at 10% is more than 75k at 20%.

I'm not sure you what you claim to be but you're not a people person. You couldn't sell ice cubes in hell.

FWIW, I never thought that way until I realized everyone was out for themselves. I kept a truck open for a guy for 3 months while he went to take care of his dying father. Told him "You'll have a job when you get back. Just handle your business." He came back and took a job elsewhere without ever getting back in the truck I held for him. 3 months of revenue lost. Changed my entire outlook on employee/employer relationships.

Employees are employees not family or friends.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/29/2016 5:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/29/2016 5:08:00 PM (view original):
I know what I can "sell" to an employee as better for them. Their daycare and college accounts don't mean a whole lot to me. Do you think your employer care about your kid's college fund? Hint: He doesn't. He wants to pay you as little as possible and will tell you what you need to hear to make it happen. If I say "If I pay you more, you'll fall into another tax bracket. How about an extra day off in December?", maybe they're toddcomm and think 74k at 10% is more than 75k at 20%.

I'm not sure you what you claim to be but you're not a people person. You couldn't sell ice cubes in hell.

It's not that you care about the savings or daycare write off or whatever, it's that you don't know where the tier is for that employee.

They might get $80k a year and still only have a taxable income of $50k. If you come at them with, "you should take $5k less to save on taxes," they're going to laugh in your face.

Are you sure? Because, if you are, you're wrong.

I've been doing this for 19 years. They've asked to work less because they're going to fall into another tax bracket. Now maybe they took it to an accountant and he ran the numbers but I doubt it. Either way, I said "You're only going to be taxed more on the money you make over that number not on your entire income." I got a blank stare in return.

Stay in your lane.

Maybe your employees are the stupidest goddam people on earth. But, since you say it's already happening, cutting their tax rate more isn't going to be a problem.

I don't know anyone who would choose a 20% rate instead of a 10% rate out of fear that scary business owners might try to pay them less. Newsflash, businessowners are already trying to pay them less.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/29/2016 4:14:00 PM (view original):
I feel like we're going down a rabbit hole of crazy.

This

Posted by bad_luck on 9/29/2016 5:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/29/2016 4:14:00 PM (view original):
I feel like we're going down a rabbit hole of crazy.

This

This