Flat/Sale tax instead of Income tax Topic

tecwrg
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Posted by wylie715 on 9/29/2016 2:23:00 PM (view original):
If mike makes $90,000 a year and pays $9000 in taxes, is it fair that Jim, who makes $3,000,000 a year pays that same $9,000 in taxes? I'm sure Mike would say no. Jim, on the other hand would probably say yes. Some would say that everyone paying X amount in taxes, regardless of what they make is fair. Everyone pays the same. Some would say paying a certain percentage of what you make in taxes every year is fair, others would say that's not fair. Its very subjective and someone is always going to say its not fair regardless of what way taxes are figured.
Of all the different scenarios in which one would try to characterize one tax plan over the other as fair or unfair, it would seem that the hardest one to put in the "fair" category would be the progressive plan that we currently have in place now, where the more money you make, the higher rate you pay.

It's essentially a penalty for being rich.
9/29/2016 2:29 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 9/29/2016 2:24:00 PM (view original):
Well, not really, but let's say I did. I was wrong to tie it to fairness. Fairness is not the way to go.
Since we're no longer concerned with "fairness" can we shitcan "Fair share"?

And, since fairness is no longer relevant, are we just going to tax arbitrarily based on what is needed to run the country? That seems patently unfair. Maybe unconstitutional. Maybe time to throw tea in harbor or something.
9/29/2016 2:30 PM
MikeT23
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Since we're arbitrarily taxing based on what is needed to run the country, I sure hope a particular race, sex, religion, etc, etc aren't being taxed more. I know that's unconstitutional.
9/29/2016 2:31 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 9/29/2016 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by wylie715 on 9/29/2016 2:23:00 PM (view original):
If mike makes $90,000 a year and pays $9000 in taxes, is it fair that Jim, who makes $3,000,000 a year pays that same $9,000 in taxes? I'm sure Mike would say no. Jim, on the other hand would probably say yes. Some would say that everyone paying X amount in taxes, regardless of what they make is fair. Everyone pays the same. Some would say paying a certain percentage of what you make in taxes every year is fair, others would say that's not fair. Its very subjective and someone is always going to say its not fair regardless of what way taxes are figured.
Of all the different scenarios in which one would try to characterize one tax plan over the other as fair or unfair, it would seem that the hardest one to put in the "fair" category would be the progressive plan that we currently have in place now, where the more money you make, the higher rate you pay.

It's essentially a penalty for being rich.
That's dumb. If you don't want to pay a lot in taxes, don't make a lot of money*.






*obviously no one ever takes this option because having a lot of money and paying taxes is still better than having just a little money.
9/29/2016 2:33 PM
bad_luck
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My preference would be to increase upper bracket rates. 60% on dollars over $1m, 85% on dollars over $5m, 95% on dollars over $10m.
9/29/2016 2:34 PM
bad_luck
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And with the increase in upper, reduce rates on lower income. Nothing up to $40k, 10% until $75k, etc.
9/29/2016 2:37 PM
MikeT23
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Care to acknowledge that 75k is different in Los Angeles than rural WV? Do you think it's right to tax them the same?
9/29/2016 2:41 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 9/29/2016 2:41:00 PM (view original):
Care to acknowledge that 75k is different in Los Angeles than rural WV? Do you think it's right to tax them the same?
Sure, I'll acknowledge that. But my example cuts taxes in both places, so I don't see the problem.
9/29/2016 2:44 PM
MikeT23
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Wouldn't the tax cut help Mr. WV a lot more?

Do you think business owners would manipulate many-tiered tax brackets?
9/29/2016 2:53 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 9/29/2016 2:53:00 PM (view original):
Wouldn't the tax cut help Mr. WV a lot more?

Do you think business owners would manipulate many-tiered tax brackets?
Who cares if it would help one person more than another. It helps both.

Do business owners manipulate brackets now? How so?
9/29/2016 2:56 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by bad_luck on 9/29/2016 2:34:00 PM (view original):
My preference would be to increase upper bracket rates. 60% on dollars over $1m, 85% on dollars over $5m, 95% on dollars over $10m.
9/29/2016 3:03 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 9/29/2016 2:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/29/2016 2:53:00 PM (view original):
Wouldn't the tax cut help Mr. WV a lot more?

Do you think business owners would manipulate many-tiered tax brackets?
Who cares if it would help one person more than another. It helps both.

Do business owners manipulate brackets now? How so?
Sure. Tax rates change based on income. Now you're going to suggest every 35k or so. If you're not paycheck to paycheck, it's easy to hold some payroll til next year. Maybe next year is a down year and you won't reach that benchmark even with a couple of extra checks.
9/29/2016 3:28 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 9/29/2016 3:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 9/29/2016 2:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/29/2016 2:53:00 PM (view original):
Wouldn't the tax cut help Mr. WV a lot more?

Do you think business owners would manipulate many-tiered tax brackets?
Who cares if it would help one person more than another. It helps both.

Do business owners manipulate brackets now? How so?
Sure. Tax rates change based on income. Now you're going to suggest every 35k or so. If you're not paycheck to paycheck, it's easy to hold some payroll til next year. Maybe next year is a down year and you won't reach that benchmark even with a couple of extra checks.
What? Walk me through that one more time.
9/29/2016 3:31 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 9/29/2016 2:37:00 PM (view original):
And with the increase in upper, reduce rates on lower income. Nothing up to $40k, 10% until $75k, etc.
0 at 40k
10% at 75k

I assume 20% at 110k or so, 30% at 150ish, etc, etc.

Was that not what you were getting at?
9/29/2016 3:41 PM
bad_luck
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Ok, but what does that have to do with business owner manipulation?
9/29/2016 3:43 PM
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Flat/Sale tax instead of Income tax Topic
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