Posted by sjpoker on 9/28/2016 9:10:00 AM (view original):
When most of us realize big tax savings, we spend it locally by perhaps buying a new car or getting our bathroom redone. Or we save it. All which helps employment and builds equity.

It doesn't make much sense for the super-rich to save money. And generally they are not buying consumer items like we are. They tend to spend that extra money in purchasing land or stocks. Generally none of those expenditures create jobs. They just increase the overall ownership of the super rich. Check out Gordon geckos Check out Gordon gekko's speech in Wall Street. He puts it out there.

So saving rich people money on their taxes generally does not have a positive impact on the economy. It just makes them more rich.

You or I buy a new car, we buy a Chevy or Ford.

Kevin Durant buys a Ferrari. Rich people buy cars.

Who pays more sales tax? Assuming sales tax is no longer capped.

I go buy a shirt. It might be $80 if I'm feeling a little special today. Do you think Trump wears $80 shirts? He buys clothes, right?

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 9:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/28/2016 9:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 7:20:00 AM (view original):
If Trump is paying nothing now, wouldn't he pay more with a flat tax? Let's just say "No" as BL stated. How about sales tax only? Trump buys a plane. He pay 20% tax(just picking a number). Is he paying more than ZERO now?

What one person pays isn't the point. Most wealthy people pay a lot in taxes. Cutting their rate down to 20% (or whatever) and raising poor people's rate to 20% (or whatever) is a terrible idea.

So Trump is the only rich person taking advantage of tax loopholes?

I'm sure there are plenty. A flat tax doesn't eliminate all deductions, it just changes the tax rate. Trump will still pay zero.

BTW, the answer to disruptive students is to remove them. Will never happen.

Public schools teach to the slowest kid in class. Or the kid who isn't interested in learning. That holds the rest back. You aren't allowed to exceed and succeed. If you want to fix education, that stops. You remove those you can't, or won't, keep up. Put them somewhere else. But, of course, that becomes like prison. They then learn all the bad things the others do. On the upside, the bright students flourish. This is the system until HS. And even the basic classes in HS still suffer from this. You have to take advanced or college prep classes.

However, if the "lower level schooling" has too many minorities in grades 1-8, it's RACIST!!!!!

So our public education will suck forever.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/28/2016 9:26:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 9:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/28/2016 9:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 7:20:00 AM (view original):
If Trump is paying nothing now, wouldn't he pay more with a flat tax? Let's just say "No" as BL stated. How about sales tax only? Trump buys a plane. He pay 20% tax(just picking a number). Is he paying more than ZERO now?

What one person pays isn't the point. Most wealthy people pay a lot in taxes. Cutting their rate down to 20% (or whatever) and raising poor people's rate to 20% (or whatever) is a terrible idea.

So Trump is the only rich person taking advantage of tax loopholes?

I'm sure there are plenty. A flat tax doesn't eliminate all deductions, it just changes the tax rate. Trump will still pay zero.

Keep up. I gave you flat tax because I wasn't interested in arguing closing loopholes.

I switched to sale tax. Address it.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 9:27:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/28/2016 9:26:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 9:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/28/2016 9:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 7:20:00 AM (view original):
If Trump is paying nothing now, wouldn't he pay more with a flat tax? Let's just say "No" as BL stated. How about sales tax only? Trump buys a plane. He pay 20% tax(just picking a number). Is he paying more than ZERO now?

What one person pays isn't the point. Most wealthy people pay a lot in taxes. Cutting their rate down to 20% (or whatever) and raising poor people's rate to 20% (or whatever) is a terrible idea.

So Trump is the only rich person taking advantage of tax loopholes?

I'm sure there are plenty. A flat tax doesn't eliminate all deductions, it just changes the tax rate. Trump will still pay zero.

Keep up. I gave you flat tax because I wasn't interested in arguing closing loopholes.

I switched to sale tax. Address it.

Address the fact that we'll never switch from income to sales tax? Ok. We'll never switch because most have zero interest in switching for good reasons. Mainly, sales tax would hurt retired people and disincentive economic activity.

Now my question for you, what's your goal in radically reforming the tax system?

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 9:17:00 AM (view original):
I go buy a shirt. It might be $80 if I'm feeling a little special today. Do you think Trump wears $80 shirts? He buys clothes, right?

I doubt Trump pays much for clothes. Either gets them through his company or writes off the expense. Hell, I write off my work clothes.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/28/2016 9:36:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 9:27:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/28/2016 9:26:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 9:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/28/2016 9:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 7:20:00 AM (view original):
If Trump is paying nothing now, wouldn't he pay more with a flat tax? Let's just say "No" as BL stated. How about sales tax only? Trump buys a plane. He pay 20% tax(just picking a number). Is he paying more than ZERO now?

What one person pays isn't the point. Most wealthy people pay a lot in taxes. Cutting their rate down to 20% (or whatever) and raising poor people's rate to 20% (or whatever) is a terrible idea.

So Trump is the only rich person taking advantage of tax loopholes?

I'm sure there are plenty. A flat tax doesn't eliminate all deductions, it just changes the tax rate. Trump will still pay zero.

Keep up. I gave you flat tax because I wasn't interested in arguing closing loopholes.

I switched to sale tax. Address it.

Address the fact that we'll never switch from income to sales tax? Ok. We'll never switch because most have zero interest in switching for good reasons. Mainly, sales tax would hurt retired people and disincentive economic activity.

Why won't you answer his question?

Of course we won't. I disagree with your reasoning. Retired people who can buy will buy. Those who can't will do just as they do now. Not buy. I wouldn't tax food bought at groceries. I would tax food bought at McDonald's, Outback, etc, etc.

People who have money will spend it. Unless your contention is that we're going to become a country of savers. That $1000 paycheck will be $1000 instead of $750(or whatever it would be). But that $1000 purchase will be $1200. Do you really think someone who got an extra $250 won't spend that extra $200?

I'm not really interested in reforming the tax system. I just tire of hearing "fair share", then we find out a guy like Trump isn't paying anything and we think by increasing the tax rate on those making 250k will somehow force Trump into paying his "fair share". It won't. So why are the Dems going after 250k guy? Depending on where you live, that's middle class.

Posted by The Taint on 9/28/2016 9:39:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 9:17:00 AM (view original):
I go buy a shirt. It might be $80 if I'm feeling a little special today. Do you think Trump wears $80 shirts? He buys clothes, right?

I doubt Trump pays much for clothes. Either gets them through his company or writes off the expense. Hell, I write off my work clothes.

I write off virtually everything. Maybe all this write off **** needs to stop. Good luck with that.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/28/2016 9:47:00 AM (view original):
Of course we won't. I disagree with your reasoning. Retired people who can buy will buy. Those who can't will do just as they do now. Not buy. I wouldn't tax food bought at groceries. I would tax food bought at McDonald's, Outback, etc, etc.

People who have money will spend it. Unless your contention is that we're going to become a country of savers. That $1000 paycheck will be $1000 instead of $750(or whatever it would be). But that $1000 purchase will be $1200. Do you really think someone who got an extra $250 won't spend that extra $200?

I'm not really interested in reforming the tax system. I just tire of hearing "fair share", then we find out a guy like Trump isn't paying anything and we think by increasing the tax rate on those making 250k will somehow force Trump into paying his "fair share". It won't. So why are the Dems going after 250k guy? Depending on where you live, that's middle class.

Wow, that's a lot to unpack.

You arent interested in reforming the tax system. Great. So...why are you starting a thread about reforming the tax system?

Can you read the entire post? I guess not. I'll quote the part that got cut off on your end:

"I just tire of hearing "fair share", then we find out a guy like Trump isn't paying anything and we think by increasing the tax rate on those making 250k will somehow force Trump into paying his "fair share". It won't. So why are the Dems going after 250k guy? Depending on where you live, that's middle class."

The Dems toss around "fair share" like it's a magical elixir. It isn't. It's a "Vote for me because I'm trying to help you by taxing them" mantra. If you really want to get "fair share", it requires a massive tax reform. A Trump can't pay $0 Federal tax under any system and pretend "fair share" is there. The family bringing in 300k isn't going to have the tax breaks that a Trump does. So this "fair share" bullshit is hitting them and not affecting the 1%.

Truth is "Those who buy more, pay more" is the best system. It's the best way to ensure those who have the money, and use it, pay a "fair share". I just don't think everyone will suddenly have a huge savings account if income tax goes away. We're spenders. We spend.

We could probably fix the loopholes that allow Trump to pay nothing without drastically changing the tax system.

If "we could probably fix", why hasn't that happened instead of screaming "fair share"?

Maybe because all the people who benefit from those loopholes are the same people who "could probably fix" it?