Posted by crabman26 on 10/3/2016 4:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 10/3/2016 4:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 10/3/2016 11:27:00 AM (view original):
If they write concerns or ideas. Why not? I think it's obvious D3 needs another approach cause it seems to me, with the new system, it's the home run approach that is making owners leave. In d1, the random is too much, the prestige too low and ees is a mess. D2 is taking the lowest hit but the hr approach could derail it.

The saddest consequence of 3.0 is how it changed recruiting for DII and DIII. I'm probably in the minority but I thought DII and DIII were near perfect under the old system. DI was always the division that had issues. The new setup, for me, makes DII and DIII unplayable. I won't list the reasons since they have been stated by others ad nauseam. I'll stick around DI for a time to see if I can adjust but I will miss the purity of the lower divisions where I have spent a large part of my 12 years playing HD.

This I agree with, UNLESS what people think is true where borderline low D1 type players are now correctly labeled D2 players. I plan on moving up to D1 with my Millersville team depending on how the D2 recruiting goes.

This was back-door confirmed in the first dev chat. The number of recruits per opening hasn't changed. Since there are fewer projected D1 recruits per opening, we can deduce that many of those previously projected D1 recruits are now listed as D2.

Posted by shoe3 on 10/3/2016 4:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by crabman26 on 10/3/2016 4:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 10/3/2016 4:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 10/3/2016 11:27:00 AM (view original):
If they write concerns or ideas. Why not? I think it's obvious D3 needs another approach cause it seems to me, with the new system, it's the home run approach that is making owners leave. In d1, the random is too much, the prestige too low and ees is a mess. D2 is taking the lowest hit but the hr approach could derail it.

The saddest consequence of 3.0 is how it changed recruiting for DII and DIII. I'm probably in the minority but I thought DII and DIII were near perfect under the old system. DI was always the division that had issues. The new setup, for me, makes DII and DIII unplayable. I won't list the reasons since they have been stated by others ad nauseam. I'll stick around DI for a time to see if I can adjust but I will miss the purity of the lower divisions where I have spent a large part of my 12 years playing HD.

This I agree with, UNLESS what people think is true where borderline low D1 type players are now correctly labeled D2 players. I plan on moving up to D1 with my Millersville team depending on how the D2 recruiting goes.

This was back-door confirmed in the first dev chat. The number of recruits per opening hasn't changed. Since there are fewer projected D1 recruits per opening, we can deduce that many of those previously projected D1 recruits are now listed as D2.

Well that is good news, I do see some really decent D2 recruits that I feel would have been labeled as D1 previously...

Posted by jamesny27 on 10/3/2016 5:27:00 AM (view original):
It's mostly the whiners leaving, majority of which are the long time coaches who were plopped in their cushy A/A+ jobs and used to 5-star recruits just falling in their laps season after season. Now that things have changed and become more of a level playing field, they are no longer interested in playing.

Interpretation - With a few notable exceptions its mostly the mediocre mid-major and low Big 6 coaches staying, hoping they can finally get handed a big 6 job that their coaching and recruiting skills could never earn them against skill-based talented coaches, circumventing dynasties for everyone gets a trophy ball.

Now I don't believe the above is true, no more than anyone should believe james statement is true, except he himself believes it, and that is the problem.

Posted by oldresorter on 10/3/2016 9:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ardthomp on 10/3/2016 8:47:00 AM (view original):

Posted by oldresorter on 10/3/2016 8:43:00 AM (view original):
last season in wooden d1/d2/d3 - 115/104/85, this season 87/77/60 so far, that is 80 of 304 coaches, pretty close to the 25% number that some predicted. There still are quite a few fence sitters, important to keep them engaged. I recommend to those who like the game to stop trying to belittle those with issues about the update, and to start taking some of the concerns seriously. All the posting characterizing those who raise issues about the game as 'whiners' and 'haters' and such does nothing to help the game, and only adds fuel to the fire. There are some coaches who are doing a great job at looking forward and helping the game, the one that comes to mind who is worth copying is Chappel.

This can be said in reverse 1000 times over for a lot of the veterans that are leaving.

1000 times?

Seriously?

The point again was to try to keep the fence sitters. IMO the fence sitters are on the fence due to issues with the game, in many cases the same issues that the unfairly characterized 'whiners' and 'haters' raised.

And, since 25% of the coaches are gone, there is very little point in worrying about the 'reverse' position, they are basically not going to matter soon.

Oh well, I tried.

seriously indeed.

Posted by ardthomp on 10/3/2016 9:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by oldresorter on 10/3/2016 9:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ardthomp on 10/3/2016 8:47:00 AM (view original):

Posted by oldresorter on 10/3/2016 8:43:00 AM (view original):
last season in wooden d1/d2/d3 - 115/104/85, this season 87/77/60 so far, that is 80 of 304 coaches, pretty close to the 25% number that some predicted. There still are quite a few fence sitters, important to keep them engaged. I recommend to those who like the game to stop trying to belittle those with issues about the update, and to start taking some of the concerns seriously. All the posting characterizing those who raise issues about the game as 'whiners' and 'haters' and such does nothing to help the game, and only adds fuel to the fire. There are some coaches who are doing a great job at looking forward and helping the game, the one that comes to mind who is worth copying is Chappel.

This can be said in reverse 1000 times over for a lot of the veterans that are leaving.

1000 times?

Seriously?

The point again was to try to keep the fence sitters. IMO the fence sitters are on the fence due to issues with the game, in many cases the same issues that the unfairly characterized 'whiners' and 'haters' raised.

And, since 25% of the coaches are gone, there is very little point in worrying about the 'reverse' position, they are basically not going to matter soon.

Oh well, I tried.

Yes, seriously. If you don't see that, then you are looking at things with rose colored glasses.

ard, you were never an idiot in my experience, and i'd recommend you keep it that way. without question, some folks on both sides of the issue have been whiny little children. its kind of like this election. everyone has bias, and you might think one side has more whiny idiots than the other, and thats OK - thats human. but if your head is so far up your rear end, that you think ONE side is full of whiny idiots, and the other is full of enlightened gentlemen, then you need to take a really good look in the mirror, so you can get a better picture of what an idiot really looks like. the HD battle is not one iota different in that regard. its easier to stomach the idiots who happen to agree with you, none of us are immune to that - but being closed minded and right makes you no less a fool than the person who is closed minded and wrong, and you may be falling into that trap.

all OR is saying is, maybe the best reaction to the idiots on the other side, is not to act like an idiot yourself. its good advice. 100% agree with the props to chap and other folks going about the situation in that manner.

The futility of the situation is probably one of the worst parts. FOR YEARS, the admins ignored reasonable (and requested) feedback concerning problems like hiring/firing/prestige in DI, post-season conference recruiting money across all divisions, in season recruiting, game credits, etc etc etc. And instead of first fixing the relatively small things which would have serious and positive influences on the game, they rolled out an unsolicited product that fundamentally changed the nature of HD.

Just shows that bells and whistles don't go very well with a dog and pony show.

Well .. we need more than the first couple worlds.

If people don't want to play, they should leave.

In 3 or 4 months we will know what the real fall out is.

Posted by hughesjr on 10/3/2016 5:51:00 PM (view original):
Well .. we need more than the first couple worlds.

If people don't want to play, they should leave.

In 3 or 4 months we will know what the real fall out is.

so if people had pre-bought seasons built up they should walk away from them - basically feeling mistreated by WIS and giving WIS a parting gift?

Posted by vandydave on 10/3/2016 6:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 10/3/2016 5:51:00 PM (view original):
Well .. we need more than the first couple worlds.

If people don't want to play, they should leave.

In 3 or 4 months we will know what the real fall out is.

so if people had pre-bought seasons built up they should walk away from them - basically feeling mistreated by WIS and giving WIS a parting gift?

That is their option. They can leave or they can play. If they really, really hate it, they should vote with their feet. That is how things like this should work (IMHO).

Now if this was some kind of mandatory thing .. You have to do this because it is the law, everyone has to have a WIS College Basketball team and they have to play the game .. then all the negativity and name calling and protesting would be fine.

But in a voluntary game you have to pay to play .. not paying sends the message that updates (however good or bad they are) need to handled differently if you want to keep PlayerX.

In the end, we'll see if the game is better and if it picks up more players. It seems it will not initially.

" It seems it will not initially. "

As I understand it, the marketing of HD will begin after the worlds are rolled over to HD3.0. Absent any such effort and data, just interested, on what basis do you make your prediction?

how much more marketing do we expect to see in this new surge than we have seen in the past - double? triple?

I am not leaving. I really hope the new administrative tandem acts on the constructive feedback they have received better than seble did. They addressed one big problem (in my opinion) which was the totally skewed competition in favor of the A+ teams. However, I am concerned that the "evening out" may have gone too far. However, if it has and if they will listen to feedback those things can and most likely will be tweaked. The ee issue is something which will need to be addressed if they don't want to lose more coaches...it is an unrealistic and counter intuitive aspect of the game as it currently stands. But the new admin team does seem to be listening and their response is infinitely more reassuring than seble's.

I am going to give; the game time. I remember the first season of GD which w2as so awful that WIS gave us all free season twos and actually fixed the problems. Hopefully the exodus of coaches does not result in the pulling of staff from HD, making it impossible to fix the new game.

Posted by fd343ny on 10/3/2016 8:29:00 PM (view original):
how much more marketing do we expect to see in this new surge than we have seen in the past - double? triple?

double what it always has been = Zero ("Encourage your friends to play, get credits", "One free season")

Posted by wvufan76 on 10/3/2016 2:00:00 PM (view original):
Put a temporary change to jobs logic, and those positions would fill real quick. We may have lost a few in the transition, but will be better in the long run. I would like to see one recruiting change from WIS.

If a player signs with a school during phase one, and the Human Coach vacates and it becomes a Sim, all his recruits "decommit" and become free agents again. This is because I am at a Big 10 School that got beaten out of everyone I recruited, and have four slots to fill during phase two.

This is a fantastic idea. Love it.

Posted by oldresorter on 10/3/2016 8:43:00 AM (view original):
last season in wooden d1/d2/d3 - 115/104/85, this season 87/77/60 so far, that is 80 of 304 coaches, pretty close to the 25% number that some predicted. There still are quite a few fence sitters, important to keep them engaged. I recommend to those who like the game to stop trying to belittle those with issues about the update, and to start taking some of the concerns seriously. All the posting characterizing those who raise issues about the game as 'whiners' and 'haters' and such does nothing to help the game, and only adds fuel to the fire. There are some coaches who are doing a great job at looking forward and helping the game, the one that comes to mind who is worth copying is Chappel.

This is the truth right here. I honestly entered the Beta very open minded, even excited a bit at the thought of what the new scouting system might bring. Once I realized I didn't like it, I reasonably addressed some concerns, and next thing I know everyone is calling anyone that doesn't like it a whiner, or someone mad because they can't maintain their position at the top, or I don't know what I'm talking (been playing almost 10 years). Problem is I was not one of those guys maintaining a cushy position at the top. I've been up and down many times. Even worse is when I see these guys with less than 5 seasons of experience adding their two cents and basically telling the vets they are just whiners, while blindly following all things WIS as a great addition, when they don't know enough about the old game to know what needed to be changed. They forget these "whiners" have a lot more time invested in this game and have much more reason to care about the changes. If you get enough BS thrown at you, you react in kind. I'll fully admit, I've gotten less then gentleman like in my recent discussions, but it's because I'm arguing with people who refuse to even address what's being said and would rather summarize with their own assumptions while throwing out repeated insults.

This is a large part of why the forums have become the way they are. Additionally, the large sweeping changes didn't help ease the situation at all. There were small fixes needed and instead we get basically a new game.