Posted by ardthomp on 10/4/2016 10:57:00 AM (view original):
Posted by oldresorter on 10/4/2016 10:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by ardthomp on 10/3/2016 10:37:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 10/3/2016 5:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ardthomp on 10/3/2016 9:13:00 AM (view original):
Posted by oldresorter on 10/3/2016 9:02:00 AM (view original):
Posted by ardthomp on 10/3/2016 8:47:00 AM (view original):
Posted by oldresorter on 10/3/2016 8:43:00 AM (view original):
last season in wooden d1/d2/d3 - 115/104/85, this season 87/77/60 so far, that is 80 of 304 coaches, pretty close to the 25% number that some predicted. There still are quite a few fence sitters, important to keep them engaged. I recommend to those who like the game to stop trying to belittle those with issues about the update, and to start taking some of the concerns seriously. All the posting characterizing those who raise issues about the game as 'whiners' and 'haters' and such does nothing to help the game, and only adds fuel to the fire. There are some coaches who are doing a great job at looking forward and helping the game, the one that comes to mind who is worth copying is Chappel.
This can be said in reverse 1000 times over for a lot of the veterans that are leaving.
1000 times?
Seriously?
The point again was to try to keep the fence sitters. IMO the fence sitters are on the fence due to issues with the game, in many cases the same issues that the unfairly characterized 'whiners' and 'haters' raised.
And, since 25% of the coaches are gone, there is very little point in worrying about the 'reverse' position, they are basically not going to matter soon.
Oh well, I tried.
Yes, seriously. If you don't see that, then you are looking at things with rose colored glasses.
ard, you were never an idiot in my experience, and i'd recommend you keep it that way. without question, some folks on both sides of the issue have been whiny little children. its kind of like this election. everyone has bias, and you might think one side has more whiny idiots than the other, and thats OK - thats human. but if your head is so far up your rear end, that you think ONE side is full of whiny idiots, and the other is full of enlightened gentlemen, then you need to take a really good look in the mirror, so you can get a better picture of what an idiot really looks like. the HD battle is not one iota different in that regard. its easier to stomach the idiots who happen to agree with you, none of us are immune to that - but being closed minded and right makes you no less a fool than the person who is closed minded and wrong, and you may be falling into that trap.
all OR is saying is, maybe the best reaction to the idiots on the other side, is not to act like an idiot yourself. its good advice. 100% agree with the props to chap and other folks going about the situation in that manner.
I have no ill will toward anyone leaving or staying. Don't like the product, don't play it. But, don't try to tear it down for others.
I have a ton of respect for OR and yourself. Tried to study what you guys do, failed some as the system was changing with potential, etc. had some huge success as well. That's how it goes, evolve as the game does. Some do it better.
What has happened since the announcement of the change and the beta is constant tearing down of the product and other players by users on both sides of the fence. The forums have never been a friendly place to begin with and it has been utter rubbish since the beta and change. A lot of the forum attitude has carried over from a lot of the vets, as they have fostered a lot of the vitriol on these boards for far too long. I really don't see how anyone can dispute that.
the big difference is the vets tend to criticize the game, the other side launches personnal attacks on the vets. Now the vets have eventually fired back in kind with attacks, which is unfortunate, but yet completely predictable. It happens on near every internet board.
The game criticism is being done by folks or vets who in many cases have done game plans and such DAILY for almost ten calendar years, have put blood, sweat and tears into the game for a long time. If those who don't like the message the vets are conveying concentrated on refuting their message rather than attack them as people, there would be no vitriol on these boards.
So yes, I can effortlessly dispute what you said. Your POV is almost comical to me actually, and is so far off base that if it wasn't so funny, I'd call it pathetic. Again, you are not pathetic, your POV is. So I challenge you to refute the content of what the vets have said, rather than pointing a finger at them as 1000 TIMES WORSE which is plain and simply BS. Can you see now 'How anyone can dispute your POV?'
You are talking about just the change over. Fine.
I'm referring to the state of the forum as a whole. We cannot expect that the forum would be a reasonable place to have a conversation about a major change like this, when we cannot have a conversation about anything on the forum without it being some kind of nasty back and forth. This is not a new problem. I've been on this site for well over a decade and look at how many posts I have to the forum. When I first started, I avoided the forum like a plague, because of the constant nastiness. That isn't a pathetic POV. That is fact.
I still don't like coming to the forum. Just look at the various topics and the bickering and name calling. Again, not a new problem. The ground work for how people conduct themselves on the forum was laid a long time ago. Cannot expect it would change when something this major comes about.
Those that want to fight the good fight, will, but very few and far between.
You realize it's the internet, right?
I've been around a while too. Look at the number of my posts. I'd wager that the vast majority of them were made to try to be helpful or to be funny. I'll also own that some non-negligible percentage of them have been "negative" in some capacity, although I believe that sometimes negative attention can result in positive improvement, but that's not what we're really talking about.
Most of the whining vets that are leaving have tried to be helpful and interactive over the years. Yes the community sometimes is acrimonious, there are a few hundred individuals, all safely behind the anonymity of a monitor, so, yeah. But it's also been a generally helpful community, especially to those honestly seeking discussion on any number of issues.
If the overall levels of "toxicity" are too high for your tastes, so be it, but it sounds like that's been the case long before this current "crisis", so maybe just go back to doing that then?