I am really tired of the "I quit" posts. Most of the time, no reason given for why the person is done other than they, I only assume, didn't like something that changed from 2.0 to 3.0. In BETA, we just had complaints about changes before even they were tested. People complained and tried to sabotage the BETA not even working through changes.
We have rehashed this already. Unfortunately, or fortunately, whichever way you feel, we took votes in BETA repeatedly, and recruiting changes were always wanted by more than half the voters. Not one change was put in by Seble that at least half the users didn't approve of. I am going to sum up the elite coach argument here and now so that at least they can move on to either work with 3.0 or quit blaming the changes for their failures. If you quit, too bad for you, but I don't care, it doesn't help anything and just sours the Forums.

Elite coaches summary..
1. There was no issue with recruiting in 2.0 other than someone trying to recruit my guys at the last minute. I liked knowing if I spend 1 more $ then I would get the recruit. I really liked knowing, how many openings my opponent has, how much money, which recruits they targeted, and how much it costs them to take actions. Oh, and I want to make sure that there is no possible way some guy with a B school or worse can even talk to my 5 star recruits. I really liked having lots of EE's and find it completely unfair if I just can't go replace them every year.
2. Job logic needs to change but I just don't know how. Please don't mess with my game.
3. I hate 3.0. I don't understand why a recruit who prefers every thing my team is "not" won't just sign with me. I don't understand why my A+ elite team just doesn't get to pick its recruits. I don't like it when another coach puts in almost the same amount of effort as I do and the recruit chooses them. Why do I have to scout. I should just be able to look at the top 100 list and pick my recruits. I lost the advantage of having tons of conference money every year and have to use "strategy" and "skill" to fill my roster now.
4. I am giving up half my teams. It is pointless now to have two teams in a world because I don't have an advantage scouting only half the country and using the extra money to beat those who don't have 2 teams for recruits.
5. You people aren't Elite and so cant talk. You don't know how hard it is. I have masted the recruiting auction process of 2.0 and now you want a part of my success.

This summarizes all the points I have been seeing from the coaches who are mad or quitting that actually posted why. Not one had a suggestion that benefited WIS as a whole but rather only themselves and keeping their Elite status. If you look whats best for the game's growth, its putting a system in place that allows for competition, a challenge, and the knowledge that one day, in the not too distant future, it could be "me" holding up the trophy. Under 2.0, most of this was not possible.

So, I ask you to please post something constructive but stop posting "I quit" or "this sucks, I quit". It just ruins the experience for those of us trying to make things work and any new users trying to pick up the game.

Posted by kubasnack on 10/12/2016 1:22:00 PM (view original):
I am really tired of the "I quit" posts. Most of the time, no reason given for why the person is done other than they, I only assume, didn't like something that changed from 2.0 to 3.0. In BETA, we just had complaints about changes before even they were tested. People complained and tried to sabotage the BETA not even working through changes.
We have rehashed this already. Unfortunately, or fortunately, whichever way you feel, we took votes in BETA repeatedly, and recruiting changes were always wanted by more than half the voters. Not one change was put in by Seble that at least half the users didn't approve of. I am going to sum up the elite coach argument here and now so that at least they can move on to either work with 3.0 or quit blaming the changes for their failures. If you quit, too bad for you, but I don't care, it doesn't help anything and just sours the Forums.

Elite coaches summary..
1. There was no issue with recruiting in 2.0 other than someone trying to recruit my guys at the last minute. I liked knowing if I spend 1 more $ then I would get the recruit. I really liked knowing, how many openings my opponent has, how much money, which recruits they targeted, and how much it costs them to take actions. Oh, and I want to make sure that there is no possible way some guy with a B school or worse can even talk to my 5 star recruits. I really liked having lots of EE's and find it completely unfair if I just can't go replace them every year.
2. Job logic needs to change but I just don't know how. Please don't mess with my game.
3. I hate 3.0. I don't understand why a recruit who prefers every thing my team is "not" won't just sign with me. I don't understand why my A+ elite team just doesn't get to pick its recruits. I don't like it when another coach puts in almost the same amount of effort as I do and the recruit chooses them. Why do I have to scout. I should just be able to look at the top 100 list and pick my recruits. I lost the advantage of having tons of conference money every year and have to use "strategy" and "skill" to fill my roster now.
4. I am giving up half my teams. It is pointless now to have two teams in a world because I don't have an advantage scouting only half the country and using the extra money to beat those who don't have 2 teams for recruits.
5. You people aren't Elite and so cant talk. You don't know how hard it is. I have masted the recruiting auction process of 2.0 and now you want a part of my success.

This summarizes all the points I have been seeing from the coaches who are mad or quitting that actually posted why. Not one had a suggestion that benefited WIS as a whole but rather only themselves and keeping their Elite status. If you look whats best for the game's growth, its putting a system in place that allows for competition, a challenge, and the knowledge that one day, in the not too distant future, it could be "me" holding up the trophy. Under 2.0, most of this was not possible.

So, I ask you to please post something constructive but stop posting "I quit" or "this sucks, I quit". It just ruins the experience for those of us trying to make things work and any new users trying to pick up the game.

First off, coaches have a right to announce they're quitting. In some cases, these are people saying goodbye to a community they've belonged to for almost a decade. In many cases, it is easier to announce than to message every person whose path you've possibly crossed. If this troubles you, don't read them. That's your right. Don't care. That's also your right.

Second, your line about seble not making changes that weren't voted on is complete BS -- the reduction of scouting money was neither voted on nor particularly favored in the beta. We were told "we'll try it like this and then revisit it." It was never revisited and now appears to be entrenched in the game with no discussion or comparison of the pros or cons of the $5K reduction.

Third, many of the "votes" taken in the beta were based off feelings at the time, prior to any of us knowing how the system operated. But due to the truncated and hasty nature of a beta designed to run for a certain number of seasons rather than being run to optimize a game, many of those decisions were never revisited. When we started to question the implications of some of those decision, we were told it was "too late in the process" to go back. Also keep in mind that many of the people now quitting were not part of the beta -- they are entitled to voice their displeasure with the product in any way they choose. If that inconveniences your forum experience then, to borrow your line, "too bad for you, but I don't care."

Fourth, there are still problems with the beta (now 3.0) that are still coming to the surface. We've noticed in the beta that several Sim teams are getting rosters featuring 10 bigs and 2 guards or 10 littles and 2 posts. This is something that should have been caught before it went live. Just because it is "now the game" doesn't mean it is immune from issue. And if those issues are severe enough, guess what, people will speak out on it.

I never said constructive requests and changes aren't allowed. The points your making should all be reviewed and the forum is where they should be posted. Also, a good bye to those you are playing with is also welcome. A "I quit, this game sucks" post is neither of those two things.

+1 rednu
Not to mention a lot of the voting after season 1 in BETA was a joke because half the beta population left in disgust.

Another suggestion was rolling this out live to 1 live world for a few seasons and iron out the kinks. Maybe even offer 2 free seasons to all those participants. Then 9 other worlds wouldn't have to pay to be more beta testers.

Great answers by rednu and Mully, in the words of Donald Trump, this rollout has been a disaster. It may even be the worst rollout in the history of software development. The project manager for this should be fired...oh wait...

rednu, it would be one thing if someone posted on the board that they were leaving to say goodbye to friends from WIS.

It's a completely different thing when people spew hate and vitriol towards those who are enjoying or, in the very least, adapting to the new system for Hoops Dynasty. I can understand being frustrated by the changes, but all of the animosity gets tedious to sift through.

Granted, those that are leaving in disgust likely do not care that there are those who like the changes. However, if someone is using their 'goodbye thread' for the purposes of insulting other paying members of the community (aside from an obvious exception, , jk) and intentionally diminishing the enjoyment of the game for current/perspective users, that thread shouldn't be posted. While the forums should not be an echo chamber of kumbaya for 3.0, personal insults are neither necessary nor welcomed.

You haven't seen many software rollouts...

Posted by kubasnack on 10/12/2016 1:22:00 PM (view original):
I am really tired of the "I quit" posts. Most of the time, no reason given for why the person is done other than they, I only assume, didn't like something that changed from 2.0 to 3.0. In BETA, we just had complaints about changes before even they were tested. People complained and tried to sabotage the BETA not even working through changes.
We have rehashed this already. Unfortunately, or fortunately, whichever way you feel, we took votes in BETA repeatedly, and recruiting changes were always wanted by more than half the voters. Not one change was put in by Seble that at least half the users didn't approve of. I am going to sum up the elite coach argument here and now so that at least they can move on to either work with 3.0 or quit blaming the changes for their failures. If you quit, too bad for you, but I don't care, it doesn't help anything and just sours the Forums.

Elite coaches summary..
1. There was no issue with recruiting in 2.0 other than someone trying to recruit my guys at the last minute. I liked knowing if I spend 1 more $ then I would get the recruit. I really liked knowing, how many openings my opponent has, how much money, which recruits they targeted, and how much it costs them to take actions. Oh, and I want to make sure that there is no possible way some guy with a B school or worse can even talk to my 5 star recruits. I really liked having lots of EE's and find it completely unfair if I just can't go replace them every year.
2. Job logic needs to change but I just don't know how. Please don't mess with my game.
3. I hate 3.0. I don't understand why a recruit who prefers every thing my team is "not" won't just sign with me. I don't understand why my A+ elite team just doesn't get to pick its recruits. I don't like it when another coach puts in almost the same amount of effort as I do and the recruit chooses them. Why do I have to scout. I should just be able to look at the top 100 list and pick my recruits. I lost the advantage of having tons of conference money every year and have to use "strategy" and "skill" to fill my roster now.
4. I am giving up half my teams. It is pointless now to have two teams in a world because I don't have an advantage scouting only half the country and using the extra money to beat those who don't have 2 teams for recruits.
5. You people aren't Elite and so cant talk. You don't know how hard it is. I have masted the recruiting auction process of 2.0 and now you want a part of my success.

This summarizes all the points I have been seeing from the coaches who are mad or quitting that actually posted why. Not one had a suggestion that benefited WIS as a whole but rather only themselves and keeping their Elite status. If you look whats best for the game's growth, its putting a system in place that allows for competition, a challenge, and the knowledge that one day, in the not too distant future, it could be "me" holding up the trophy. Under 2.0, most of this was not possible.

So, I ask you to please post something constructive but stop posting "I quit" or "this sucks, I quit". It just ruins the experience for those of us trying to make things work and any new users trying to pick up the game.

Thank you for summing up some of my thoughts. I really hate saying this because many of those "Old Timers" are my Mentors and Friends that I have played against for years. But I noticed during beta that many of the people who could have given solid feed back just "bowed up" and quit or did not test. YES I ACKNOWLEDGE that Seble was date focused and failed to communicate well. Knowing now that he had resigned before beta testing, and was just running out the "date" explains lack of feedback to my satisfaction. rednu is correct, being date driven caused Seble to be a dictator and not work well on some4 issues.

I will enjoy 3.0 for the new game it is, after my learning curve has ended. We ALL need to get used to fewer great players at the D1 level, and more battles for the few there are. The only two things I hate are A) on assistant search, you cannot tell the assistant to not look at players who are already considering a school and B) last two recruiting cycles you cannot trade recruiting cash for scouting cash (most of you have already seen several different posts that I had a very small pool all at level one, and around 4K in recruiting cash....and no scouting cash to grow my pool or scout the four undecideds to level two). I will learn, and having to recruit nine slots at D1 will make me learn quickly. I hope.

rednu is correct, many of those leaving were saying goodbye to others. The method may have sounded like a whine, but trust me it was more of a gripe.

kubasnack, I probably agree with most of what you wrote (admittedly, I didn't read it all), but did you really think this was going to do anything to reduce the toxicity on the forums?

In short:

Constructive criticism and discussion of preferences - good, that's what forums are for.

Choosing to leave publicly, and saying goodbye to all your cyber friends - Ok. Kind of sad, but ok.

Exit trolling - lame.

Flaming/spewing/various other forms of sabotage aimed at taking it all down with you - ban that ***.

summary of concerns expressed is deeply inaccurate, but much as you are not interested in people saying goodbye, there is no reason to bother correcting

one easy option is not to read threads where the title involves goodbye

exit trolling... lol

Posted by noleaniml on 10/12/2016 2:46:00 PM (view original):
kubasnack, I probably agree with most of what you wrote (admittedly, I didn't read it all), but did you really think this was going to do anything to reduce the toxicity on the forums?

probably not but I just want the "experts" who were unwilling to help and are now bowing out know that they have been heard. We just need to move on to making the product better for everyone, making sure glitches are removed, and new players want to stay on once they try the game.

As for the person who called this roll-out the worse they have ever seen, they must be living in another world. I work in IT and have seen people roll out way worse. This wouldn't even make my top 10 this month. Microsoft has a handful of Windows editions that most could argue were a much bigger calamity. Overall, most everything is working and the mobile friendliness is awesome. A few logic items were missed like the SIM filling roster logic and we probably won't see the long term affect of the affects of top recruits being spread out over more teams. I would guess it will make the tourney more unpredictable, which is a good thing.

Ok, first of all, making the tourney "more unpredictable" is not, for the good coaches who love the game, a good thing. In fact, that assertion sounds utterly absurd to me. The point of this game has always been to build the best team and then go try to win with them. If the best teams no longer win that's not a good thing. If doing the best job with team planning and recruiting doesn't result in the best team, at least when luck goes your way, that's not a good thing. There is absolutely no way I can see making strategy and skill less significant construed as a benefit. I've always kinda laughed quietly behind my hand at the coaches who are convinced that coaches who like 3.0 only like it because they think it will help them compete with better players. But you're kinda confirming their thoughts here. If you think unpredictability in what will happen in the postseason is a good thing, I think you're so far out of touch with the better coaches that your opinions on their perspectives on the game are frankly irrelevant.

Second, with regards to the original post, you don't see the irony of expressing a sarcastic and disparaging summary of what are some of the arguments of departing coaches and then knock them for not being "constructive." That's about as unconstructive an approach as you could take. If you step back for a second and think about your post I think you could easily see that leaving out the part that's begging for the addressed group of coaches to respond negatively - that's absolutely what you should expect when you attack people in that fashion - is doing far more harm than good. Moreover, it doesn't contribute anything whatsoever to your point. You just wanted to attack the people who are attacking the game. If you're gonna do that, fine. But have the integrity to get off your high horse in a scenario in which you're being just as bad as they are.

Ok, I missed where anyone talked about making the actual game engine results more random...?