The system actually works!!! Topic

Poncho, Budd - I brought up these same points you're making back in Beta too. Here's what I posted on 6/29. Didn't get much traction so I guess not many people felt the same way I did

http://test.whatifsports.net/whatifsports/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=420606
10/21/2016 6:48 AM
Posted by mullycj on 10/20/2016 11:27:00 PM (view original):
You cant fix stupid benis. We have been saying the same thing to Spudhole for the last 3 months and he will never get it.
You are correct. I found this quote from you on a thread in Beta. This thread is basically a microcosm of the entire Red Light debate.

"Spud doesn't get it. Even when you lay it out as simple as Chapel has. And guess what? SPUD WILL never get it. It's like talking to a brick wall, except the brick wall is a bit smarter. It's like trying to convince a 5 year old the world is round. Prime example of why you should have had a certain number of seasons to even be in BETA."
http://test.whatifsports.net/whatifsports/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=420676&page=3

Still - really curious what other coaches have to say about this topic. Especially those are have more than 1 season at D3. Hopefully we get some good conversations going.
10/21/2016 7:07 AM
I would like to point out that the first recruiting season in BETA, the SIM teams where very strong and a bunch of complaints came in saying that SIMS should never out recruit humans and they need to be made dumb again. SEBLE made the adjustments to keep them from being too aggressive and then had to make a fix because they wouldn't sign anyone. People can't have it both ways.
10/21/2016 7:08 AM
Posted by kubasnack on 10/21/2016 7:08:00 AM (view original):
I would like to point out that the first recruiting season in BETA, the SIM teams where very strong and a bunch of complaints came in saying that SIMS should never out recruit humans and they need to be made dumb again. SEBLE made the adjustments to keep them from being too aggressive and then had to make a fix because they wouldn't sign anyone. People can't have it both ways.
I had the opposite experience in beta. I was able to sign D1 guys over sims while at D3 using only APs. I thought this was too easy. Seble did beef up sims after that. But he also added in the division multiplier which I think made an even bigger difference. I advocated for making it tougher even though I may be kicking myself for it since I'm battling a bunch of D2 sims right now :)

But shouldn't it be that way? Shouldn't I have to be savvy with my recruiting in order to sign players above my division? Shouldn't there be some decent level of risk there? (I'm pooping bricks at the moment).

But at your own level, sims should still be relatively easy to beat and I think its easier in 3.0 than in 2.0. I have no issues with that whatsoever. Its when recruiting up that there should be additional hurdles.
10/21/2016 8:15 AM
Posted by Benis on 10/20/2016 8:00:00 PM (view original):
Two things

1. This shows how important it was to have Spud's Red Light and how bad it'd be without it. However...
2. You still got 2 D1 guys and 3 D2 while still spending the vast majority of your APs and budget going after this other guy. At a B- D3 school. This just shows unbalanced this is. If a Sim just randomly chooses not to recruit these guys, you get them for basically nothing.

Would you mind posting a screenshot of the players you signed with potentials? I'm curious to see how good they are.
This my strategy now: just go after 90-99 De guys with nice SP and Cores (60s for Guards; 70s for Bigs) and have maybe 2-3 guys on my team that can sink a three when needed so teams can't go -2 or -3.
10/21/2016 8:48 AM
Posted by kubasnack on 10/21/2016 7:08:00 AM (view original):
I would like to point out that the first recruiting season in BETA, the SIM teams where very strong and a bunch of complaints came in saying that SIMS should never out recruit humans and they need to be made dumb again. SEBLE made the adjustments to keep them from being too aggressive and then had to make a fix because they wouldn't sign anyone. People can't have it both ways.
Uhhm yes you can. You can certainly create a system where sims are relatively easy to beat WITHIN your division, yet are difficult to beat 1-2 divisions higher.
10/21/2016 10:58 AM
Posted by mullycj on 10/21/2016 10:58:00 AM (view original):
Posted by kubasnack on 10/21/2016 7:08:00 AM (view original):
I would like to point out that the first recruiting season in BETA, the SIM teams where very strong and a bunch of complaints came in saying that SIMS should never out recruit humans and they need to be made dumb again. SEBLE made the adjustments to keep them from being too aggressive and then had to make a fix because they wouldn't sign anyone. People can't have it both ways.
Uhhm yes you can. You can certainly create a system where sims are relatively easy to beat WITHIN your division, yet are difficult to beat 1-2 divisions higher.
I agree here. I agree that super-teams in D3 is potentially a problem. What I'd like to see, instead of capping divisions, is to improve the sim logic at appropriate divisions, and to code some probability of D1 projected kids choosing juco over dropping levels. I like the strategy element of D3 teams having the option to go after D1 guys that fall through the cracks. But it should be a risky move.
10/21/2016 11:27 AM
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Posted by CoachSpud on 10/21/2016 12:23:00 PM (view original):
There is already a total and complete division divider such that there is NO overlap between the divisions. There is a steep prestige gradient. There are preferences stacked in favor of (a) strong conferences, (b) strong teams and (c) long-term coaches. Every recruiting effort by a D2/D3 team is weaker than the same effort by a D1 team. Every recruiting effort by a D3 team is weaker than the same effort by a D2 team. The D3 budgets are a fraction of D2 budgets, and D1 budgets are a multiple of D2/D3 budgets.

Given all that, it boggles the imagination that anyone could still be arguing that D3 should be put at an even greater disadvantage when we want new coaches to stick around. Given all that, I think the specter of D3 super-teams is a Halloween boogeyman. There is no more probability of super-teams at D3 than there has ever been -- far less, really. Not only that, but I think WIS cares enough about getting and keeping new coaches that they aren't going to kill them before they even start. The survival of HD depends on that.
What the hell do any of those 3 preferences you refer to have anything to do with how easier it is between divisons?

1. Strong conference = Average prestige between all schools in the conference. You could have a full D2 conference that's very strong and would likely score well on that preference versus some lone D1 school in a weak D1 conference.

2. Strong teams? I assume you mean "Prefers Success"? Again, a D1 Power 5 doormat losing 20 games a season will probably score low versus a high prestige D2 team winning 25+.

3. Long-term coaches. Seriously? D3 coach at school X for 50 seasons versus the guy who moves up to D1 from D2.

The issue here is you state we should plan ahead for EEs by going to grab backups. Well those "backups" you reference are all being fought over by *everyone*... D1 humans/SIMs, D2/D3 humans.

They can't be early signers, and usually not EOP1 ones, so that leaves Late or Whenever, we can't offer a schoolie (duh) and if *anyone* likely wants to come and battle for him, we have to look elsewhere. In other words, for a D1 school to find a backup or EE replacement player, we have to find someone that nobody will fight us for or hope they are too scared to do so.

And why in the hell are D3 coaches are at a disadvantage if they couldn't recruit D1? Is there some super secret all-division tourney I don't know about where the D3 teams play the D2 or D1 ones? This is like you complaining that the local HS team can't go out and pull in guys playing in the NBA because hey it would be more fun for the HS coaches...
10/21/2016 12:51 PM (edited)
"What the hell do any of those 3 preferences you refer to have anything to do with how easier it is between divisons?" I didn't say they did. Is that a trick question?

" you state we should plan ahead for EEs " At what point in the post you quoted did I say anything remotely resembling EE's? In fact, at what point in that post did I say anything to which your post responds? Maybe you meant to quote a different post ... ?
10/21/2016 1:59 PM
What "boggles the mind" is that after 3 months and 100 people telling him the same thing that Spudhole cant get it through his thick head that there are three SEPARATE divisions in HD.

DIII teams play OTHER DIII teams with DIII recruits
DII teams play OTHER DII teams with DII recruits
DI teams play OTHER DI teams with DI recruits

When you create a system where SOME DIII teams can play with DI recruits it creates an imbalance. And THIS is what would make it not fun for other DIII coaches. And every time you use the term "welfare" it only proves how clueless you are. These aren't recruits that most DI teams even want. Let them go JUCO or SIM. How is that welfare Spudtard? The coaches on these threads who have a clue are trying to protect DIII. But you don't get it, and again, NEVER WILL.
10/21/2016 2:11 PM
Posted by pkoopman on 10/21/2016 11:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by mullycj on 10/21/2016 10:58:00 AM (view original):
Posted by kubasnack on 10/21/2016 7:08:00 AM (view original):
I would like to point out that the first recruiting season in BETA, the SIM teams where very strong and a bunch of complaints came in saying that SIMS should never out recruit humans and they need to be made dumb again. SEBLE made the adjustments to keep them from being too aggressive and then had to make a fix because they wouldn't sign anyone. People can't have it both ways.
Uhhm yes you can. You can certainly create a system where sims are relatively easy to beat WITHIN your division, yet are difficult to beat 1-2 divisions higher.
I agree here. I agree that super-teams in D3 is potentially a problem. What I'd like to see, instead of capping divisions, is to improve the sim logic at appropriate divisions, and to code some probability of D1 projected kids choosing juco over dropping levels. I like the strategy element of D3 teams having the option to go after D1 guys that fall through the cracks. But it should be a risky move.
+1
10/21/2016 2:41 PM
"What "boggles the mind" is that after 3 months and 100 people telling him the same thing ..." that none of those 100 people are able to see both sides of the coin, nor address any of the points I raised. How sad. Fortunately, I have confidence in WIS to do it right.

"Consider a poll: for new D3 coaches only:
(1) do you want (A) good players or (B) lousy players on your roster?
(2) Which is more fun, (A) playing with good players on your roster, or (B) playing with lousy players on your roster?"
10/21/2016 4:37 PM (edited)
"Consider a poll: for new D3 coaches only:
(1) do you want (A) good players or (B) lousy players on your roster compared to other teams in YOUR DIVISION
(2) Which is more
fun, (A) playing with good players on your roster, or (B) playing with lousy players on your roster compared to other teams in your division?"

Again, you fail to understand relativity. You have a one track mind and don't even consider that the people with 10x your experience MIGHT know what they are talking about. You are a sad little boy Spud. Maybe one day you will grow up and realize you don't know everything.
10/21/2016 4:52 PM
Mully, I'm going to say something that we all know to be true. I think we need to start acknowledging it.

It's not that Spud doesn't get it. He's smart enough to get it. It's that he doesn't WANT to get it. These are very different things. Spud is just trolling us. That's all he's done since he joined and started posting on the forums. He made Beta miserable and ruined thread after thread. I really wonder what Beta would have been like had he not be there.

I propose that we all just stop responding to him. I'm giving up. It's pointless to argue with someone who simply doesn't want to see any viewpoint other than their own. I'll continue to post things in threads to make sure people aren't misinformed by things that Spud posts. But honestly, I'm not too worried about it. Any newbie can take a look at his post history and see what it contains and quickly determine that they probably should be skeptical of everything they read by him.

So lets band together and stop feeding him. I'm one of the biggest problems here... I will do my best to stop trying to reason with him or debate with him. All it does is create bickering between all of us and the forums are full of it. Me personally, I don't mind it and wouldn't care if people yelled at each other all day but it wouldn't be good for the game. It's a little early but I'll start #nospudnovember right now.
10/21/2016 5:34 PM
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