Posted by buddhagamer on 10/28/2016 7:24:00 PM (view original):
Keep in mind, scholarship resources are still king here. Full-season resources for an extra 2 scholarships could mean being able to max effort on 2 more elite recruits early in the process.

At minimum distances, HV/CV are around $200/$400 so max effort cost is at minimum $4400. Since an opening @ D1 only gives you $3K per, you can't get 2 recruits of any kind with max effort invested in both (which for elite recruits are usually a costly battle).

With most late signing elite recruits being heavily invested by likely high prestige schools, getting 2 EEs likely only gets you a 50/50 chance to win a single recruit (in essence, for every 4 EES, you get to replace him with a similar starting player and taking 3 walk-ons).

With 1 D1 opening, you have 8k in resources (5k base, 3k for the opening). So you can really only max one guy. The rest of your resources can be spread amongst other guys, but probably can't get to max on a second. If you have 3 openings, you have 14k, and you can max on 3 local guys.

You don't have to limit your recruiting to elite players you will need to battle hard for. It's certainly a viable option, but you're not required to follow that strategy. That's why this system is better than the last one - it makes more strategies legitimate and viable for winning games.

PK- while I'm on the otherside of the debate so I don't agree with what you're saying, you're at least making sensible points and I appreciate it. Much better than "D1 teams are whining about losing their candy!" stuff. This is a complicated one right now and we all have a view on how it should go. Maybe they'll get there.

“I'm not in favor of extra APs. I think I made that clear. So the term "windfall" doesn't apply to anything I wrote.”
I didn’t say it did. I thought that is a rather obvious verbal shorthand for a lump sum of AP’s at the start of the second recruiting session. That is how it has been used in recent days in these forums.

“The only reason there is a 2nd session, and the only reason there are visible preferences for signing period, is so that teams with early entries can have their effort considered.”
“Only?” I think that overstates the matter.

“Im not in favor eliminating EEs, or having them declare early, because those teams shouldn't have a perpetual advantage in recruiting that comes with having those extra scholarship resources available from the start every year.”
Totally agree. Well put. That clarifies it nicely for me, and I hope other people understand what you wrote.

koop -
"Im not in favor eliminating EEs, or having them declare early, because those teams shouldn't have a perpetual advantage in recruiting that comes with having those extra scholarship resources available from the start every year."

How are you getting at "extra scholarship resources"? Shouldn't every team have the same amount of resources per open scholarship??
if I have 2 SRs and 2 EEs I have 4 open spots. Why shouldn't I get the same resources as someone with 4 SRs? Like Hillary, you just want to tax the rich.

You do get the same amount of resources per opening (not including APs, because those are a separate issue, and I've been on record saying I think that formula needs to change to level off any advantage past unlocking recruiting actions). You get the resources right when the scholarship opens up. And those resources can be used as a solid weapon for players you've adequately targeted, heading into 2nd session. I've pulled it off in beta and in Allen to replace EEs. At that point, the big issue is whether enough players that you should be able to recruit will still be available for you. I've been skeptical that there have been enough from the beginning of beta, and now that they've "fixed" whenevers, I'm quite sure there aren't enough. If they get that number right (I'm saying it should be about 80% of top 100 players should be late or whenever) the playability will be about perfect, IMO.

"having those extra scholarship resources available from the start every year."

I don't understand what you mean by this sentence. Makes it sound like you think EE coaches have extra resources.

Posted by mullycj on 10/29/2016 12:34:00 AM (view original):
"having those extra scholarship resources available from the start every year."

I don't understand what you mean by this sentence. Makes it sound like you think EE coaches have extra resources.

Just above what they have now. If you have 2 graduating seniors, you start recruiting with the resources associated with 2 scholarships. If you have 2 early entries declare, you will get resources associated with 2 more scholarships for the late period. If they declare early, you'd have more resources than you do now at the start. That's all I mean by extra.

Posted by pkoopman on 10/29/2016 8:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 10/29/2016 12:34:00 AM (view original):
"having those extra scholarship resources available from the start every year."

I don't understand what you mean by this sentence. Makes it sound like you think EE coaches have extra resources.

Just above what they have now. If you have 2 graduating seniors, you start recruiting with the resources associated with 2 scholarships. If you have 2 early entries declare, you will get resources associated with 2 more scholarships for the late period. If they declare early, you'd have more resources than you do now at the start. That's all I mean by extra.

The problem is .. you don't have TIME to unlock people in the late period.

Second session needs to be longer. The first period is 22 turns, 10 turns before any signings start, to unlock and do recruiting actions. The second session has 12 turns. Zero of those turns are protected .. so on turn 1 people can sign. If it takes 4 turns to unlock someone, you are still at a disadvantage .. they could sign before you get them unlocked. and on top of that, you missed out on 22 sessions of 20 APs for your recruit.

They need to do two things if you want to take this tact ..

1. The second session needs to be as long as the first session.
2. There needs to be the same number of NON-SIGNING turns at the beginning of the second session as the first session to allow people to unlock recruits and apply recruiting actions.

If they do that, I can live with the AP disadvantage. But 12 sessions, no protected sessions, and no APs to allow for accelerated unlocking. That is extremely punitive. I don't think that is the goal.

Not only that, but coaches changing teams would also benefit from a longer 2nd session and a protected set of turns .. just like in the first session.

I believe that for the final 24 hours of recruiting, in the second session, all scholarships are unlocked.

Posted by chapelhillne on 10/29/2016 9:59:00 AM (view original):
I believe that for the final 24 hours of recruiting, in the second session, all scholarships are unlocked.

Only Scholarship offers, and only in or below your division.

The ONLY the scholarship offer is key. Not any other recruiting actions. No need to offer a scholarship if you can't get to High with that offer. To do that, you likely need to be able to do things other than a scholarship offer.

Didn't realize that. So, if I am at D2, then a D1 player still needs to be unlocked?

Posted by chapelhillne on 10/29/2016 10:04:00 AM (view original):
Didn't realize that. So, if I am at D2, then a D1 player still needs to be unlocked?

Correct

Posted by hughesjr on 10/29/2016 9:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by pkoopman on 10/29/2016 8:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 10/29/2016 12:34:00 AM (view original):
"having those extra scholarship resources available from the start every year."

I don't understand what you mean by this sentence. Makes it sound like you think EE coaches have extra resources.

Just above what they have now. If you have 2 graduating seniors, you start recruiting with the resources associated with 2 scholarships. If you have 2 early entries declare, you will get resources associated with 2 more scholarships for the late period. If they declare early, you'd have more resources than you do now at the start. That's all I mean by extra.

The problem is .. you don't have TIME to unlock people in the late period.

Second session needs to be longer. The first period is 22 turns, 10 turns before any signings start, to unlock and do recruiting actions. The second session has 12 turns. Zero of those turns are protected .. so on turn 1 people can sign. If it takes 4 turns to unlock someone, you are still at a disadvantage .. they could sign before you get them unlocked. and on top of that, you missed out on 22 sessions of 20 APs for your recruit.

They need to do two things if you want to take this tact ..

1. The second session needs to be as long as the first session.
2. There needs to be the same number of NON-SIGNING turns at the beginning of the second session as the first session to allow people to unlock recruits and apply recruiting actions.

If they do that, I can live with the AP disadvantage. But 12 sessions, no protected sessions, and no APs to allow for accelerated unlocking. That is extremely punitive. I don't think that is the goal.

Not only that, but coaches changing teams would also benefit from a longer 2nd session and a protected set of turns .. just like in the first session.

Lots of ways for teams planning for EEs to recruit without the resources. You can unlock lots of guys in the first session, even with only a scholarship or two worth of APs to work with. Would you be behind the 8-ball if you didn't have anyone graduating, and lost 4 EEs. Yes, no denying that. That's not going to happen often moving forward, and it's just something that coaches should plan for. Even in that scenario, with only the base 20 APs, I'd wager you could unlock and offer scholarships to at least 4 players, probably more if you didn't shoot for all elite players. Can't say for sure, not a situation I've faced. But in general, gameplay adaptation takes care of a lot of problems.

I agree there should be at least one protected turn at the start of the second session (at least for late preference players) to ensure all intended effort from EE teams is considered. But after that, the only thing I'm concerned about regarding gameplay is to make sure there is a rational number of elite players available in the late period, players that would normally be expected to be interested in teams who get a lot of players to the NBA.

Posted by hughesjr on 10/29/2016 10:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by chapelhillne on 10/29/2016 9:59:00 AM (view original):
I believe that for the final 24 hours of recruiting, in the second session, all scholarships are unlocked.

Only Scholarship offers, and only in or below your division.

The ONLY the scholarship offer is key. Not any other recruiting actions. No need to offer a scholarship if you can't get to High with that offer. To do that, you likely need to be able to do things other than a scholarship offer.

Not quite right. If a player in the final cycle has no teams with Very High or High interest in him, he will consider a Moderate team. If there are none of those, he will consider a Low team. If there are none of those, he will consider a Very Low team. Making a scholarship offer is free, and sufficient to possibly land the recruit. And you have all day to do other recruiting efforts anyway.

bump