The fact that IPFW is a B prestige team does mitigate the absurdity of this one a little bit.

But I also think that there's no question that seble designed this system to be more like a draft - each coach can only go "all in" on so many players, so a lower-prestige school seeing a guy as its first choice can beat out a blue blood who sees a guy as second choice.

This system is better at creating battles, which is one part of realism, but it is highly flawed at another part of realism: at a certain level of prestige difference, virtually any player is going to choose the higher-level school over a lower-level one, even if the higher-level school put in much less effort. Prestige just simply is weighted unrealistically low at this point.

Posted by jcfreder on 10/26/2016 10:45:00 AM (view original):
The fact that IPFW is a B prestige team does mitigate the absurdity of this one a little bit.

But I also think that there's no question that seble designed this system to be more like a draft - each coach can only go "all in" on so many players, so a lower-prestige school seeing a guy as its first choice can beat out a blue blood who sees a guy as second choice.

This system is better at creating battles, which is one part of realism, but it is highly flawed at another part of realism: at a certain level of prestige difference, virtually any player is going to choose the higher-level school over a lower-level one, even if the higher-level school put in much less effort. Prestige just simply is weighted unrealistically low at this point.

You're right about the first part, recalling that IPFW is not a bottom-feeder in Allen, they have been a solid "mid-major" team for a number of years. I think you need to keep that in mind when you get to your last paragraph. I agree that "at a certain level of prestige difference", the higher prestige team shouldn't have to really battle the lower prestige team. But B prestige teams aren't bottom feeders. They are usually very good mid-majors, or 2nd tier Big 6 schools. This isn't an example of a flaw or a broken system (unless IPFW was supposed to have lost effort credit when the coach left, then it's a bug).

"at a certain level of prestige difference, virtually any player is going to choose the higher-level school over a lower-level one, even if the higher-level school put in much less effort. "

Hate to bring up real life examples... but this is just not true. It's going to weigh heavily in the decision but there are so many other factors.

Look at 5 star recruit Kris Dunn. Chose Providence over UConn, Louisville and Georgetown. Even though Providence hadn't won a tourney game since 1997 and UConn is... well UConn. Louisville & Georgetown are pretty decent programs themselves. That's like a C vs A prestige right there.

Prestige is factored in. It is very important still but maybe it's been nerfed too much. But I really don't think it should be a master trump card. If the effort put in by Duke is even remotely close to IPFW then yeah, it's 100% Duke. I doubt it was though.

As the person who built up IPFW from D+ prestige to the "solid mid-major team" that they are today (with help from carson333 who took over when I left) let me just make a brief comment...

YES!!! GO MASTODONS!!! SUCK IT DUKE! EAT IT GOPHERS! YEAH!!!

In real life, St. Louis just got a commitment from the #9 player in the Class of 2018.

It appears, life imitates WIS 3.0! :)

I think each HD World has its own share of real-life Gonzaga's and Wichita's and schools that are good enough to not shock us if they out-recruit the Big Six schools. I'm not familiar with Allen, but IPFW looks like a Gonzaga-esque school, with a Sweet 16 a few years back and another NT win recently.

Crum has schools from low-major conferences that fit this description too:
- Stony Brook under kermit.
- Lipscomb under paul836.
- Pepperdine under simpleton.
- Hartford under redwolf.
- Morgan State under twencoach.
- couple of MAC teams.

Point is, in Crum it isn't surprising when Stony Brook recruits great players... and in fact this happened yesterday when they signed two very good players in Flippo and Wilkerson. Just replace "Crum Stony Brook" with "Real Life Gonzaga".

The real concern I have is not that this recruit went to IPFW in this one instance. If that recruit had "No preference" in this instance or even just 1 of them, I wouldn't say it is out of line.

It is when a top elite recruit has the "Wants Success" preference *and* the "Strong Conference" as well that it likely still isn't weighted enough for the top 100 recruits.

IMO, an elite level recruit should weight those preferences *more* than most other recruits.

So the question is, if its linear right now (i.e. the preference weight is identical for some random D3 recruit with those preferences as it is for an elite D1 recruit) should it stay that way or should it be changed in the future to be more non-linear.

Posted by pseudochamp on 10/26/2016 11:35:00 AM (view original):
As the person who built up IPFW from D+ prestige to the "solid mid-major team" that they are today (with help from carson333 who took over when I left) let me just make a brief comment...

YES!!! GO MASTODONS!!! SUCK IT DUKE! EAT IT GOPHERS! YEAH!!!

Must be a great feeling. I am trying to build up Miles myself for that feeling as well. We already have a preety good history

I just need one more recruting session to be a 3/3/3/3 structure and make one more cut and thats it. However after 10 seasons here I plan on moving to a job where record is semi less important and try to build up a program possible more than likely going to be my favorite school East Carolina in the near future. Or it could be Unc Wilimington. Then its going to be big 6 job in Allen and then try to win a national championship before I get another team that's my goal's as of now.

Posted by buddhagamer on 10/26/2016 12:09:00 PM (view original):
The real concern I have is not that this recruit went to IPFW in this one instance. If that recruit had "No preference" in this instance or even just 1 of them, I wouldn't say it is out of line.

It is when a top elite recruit has the "Wants Success" preference *and* the "Strong Conference" as well that it likely still isn't weighted enough for the top 100 recruits.

IMO, an elite level recruit should weight those preferences *more* than most other recruits.

So the question is, if its linear right now (i.e. the preference weight is identical for some random D3 recruit with those preferences as it is for an elite D1 recruit) should it stay that way or should it be changed in the future to be more non-linear.

If Duke and A&M had been able to match home visits, and had offered the start/minutes as early, then I would wager they would have both been very high, and IPFW simply high. We don't know effort, but it seems very unlikely to me that either Duke or A&M would have been able to max out effort. If IPFW (or hypothetically LSU or Mississippi St) maxes effort, and the higher prestige teams don't or can't, and yet they're still all relatively close, with near the same odds of landing the recruit, that indicates to me that the system is working as it should.

honestly folks, without knowing all the effort from each team, there is really nothing useful we can say about this scenario

Real life = all jobs filled. So Sim jobs have no impact, no tv deals are brought to the conferences, our only tool is Base prestige. In this case we got a team a true mid-major, stronger than the a-10 in the conference. That's allen reality, it's a vcu, gonzaga or wichita state if we compare to reality.